Ask Us Anything 2024!
This week brings our yearly "Ask Us Anything" episode, where Janet and Jocelyn dive into your questions and point us back to Scripture along the way. Thank you for all your great questions – we hope this episode lifts your spirit as we gear up for an exciting lineup of topics in 2025.
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Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.
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Episode Transcript
Resources
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Podcasts
Parenting 1: Foundations - Joyful Journey
Parenting 2: Bring Them Up - Joyful Journey
Parenting 3: Special Needs Parenting - Joyful Journey
Adult Children and Their Parents - Joyful Journey
Joy and Suffering - Paul Tripp
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Pre-conference More Than Conquerors - John Henderson
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Read Through the Scripture Challenge 2024
Transcript:
Jocelyn: I don't just need to feel better. I need the truth. And ultimately that will make me better.
Janet: I just want to make it as totally simple as possible for ladies to see that the Bible is really applicable to their everyday life.
Jocelyn: When they understand theology, the application flows out of it quickly with joy.
Janet: It is a journey, but even the journey itself is joyful when I'm doing it, holding the hand of my savior and trusting him all along the way. This is the joyful journey podcast, a podcast to inspire and equip women to passionately pursue beautiful biblical truth on their journey as women of God. When you choose truth, you're choosing joy.
Janet: Okay. Welcome back listeners. This is Janet once again with Jocelyn.
Jocelyn: Hey friends.
Janet: And we're here for our annual Ask Us Anything podcast.
Jocelyn: Last episode of the year.
Janet: So these are some of the questions that came in and I do believe we're going to get to most of them if we can get through all of this. But let me get us started. Let me ask you this, Jocelyn. One question that came in. How can side by side ministries persevere in supporting those who've experienced trauma?
Jocelyn: Wow. I appreciate this question. I appreciate the sensitivity that seems like it's the heart behind it.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: Because, you know, there's lots of people in our church that may have been traumatized in some way or experienced trauma. And it's hard to know exactly how to support them. It's hard to know what to do that's helpful and not hurtful. Hard to know how to serve and not enable, you know, there's lots of different things. And so I would say my first advice is to just to get to know that person. So to not see the person as just, like, lumped into the same box of traumatized. I would say resist the temptation to lump her into a box called trauma. Like she's a person. She's not a category.
Janet: I think that's really wise because, you know, as you get to know her, you may even realize, Oh, I know how I could encourage her, but not when I think, how do I help trauma?
Jocelyn: And even the people that I serve that are traumatized, I never just lumped them into a box and assume anything about what this is going to look like for them because they're a person. So I would say resist the urge to assume. We don't know anything about this person unless we talk to them personally, unless we get to know their story as they're willing to share it. And we can't just interview someone and expect it's going to, you know, all come out in a nice tidy package. But get to know them, get to know their story and get to know what their reaction to trauma looks or sounds like for them. A life threatening experience will shock anyone. And so it's going to connect with their heart. It's going to connect with even their idolatry and their desires. And so you have to get to know how did their trauma affect them and what does it look like and sound like for them when they struggle. So I would just ask some questions like this. What are things that make your life harder? What are things that give you Godly comfort? What are ways I can help you in this context, in the same Bible study, as your mentor, in mom to mom, whatever your context is, what are ways that I might see evidences of your suffering here and how can I serve you? And then I would serve the individual as she needs. And so we really want to make sure we're serving and ministering. We don't ever want to just slap the word of God at someone like, here's your verse. Take it. You know, we want to minister the word of God. And so when we're thinking about serving an individual who has individual needs, we need to think what is the best thing for their soul right now? How can I serve you and your needs? And I also want to make sure that I'm not enabling them or making it easier for them to sin or to pursue idolatry or to have idolatrous responses to something. I also want to serve and I don't want to excuse, and I don't want to coddle. when I'm serving, I'm thinking, what is good for their soul? What is their soul need? Most not, how can I help them to never feel sorry about this or never to feel sad about this? How do I think through like the ways that makes it hard for them to sin and not easy for them to make excuses for doing something in the old person way. I would also want to be really patient and gentle with their weaknesses. And that's one thing that I've learned with people who have experienced trauma is that a lot of what I do is being patient with someone's weaknesses and not just overlooking it. But also not saying I expect more of you. Like I expect reality. And if I were in a near death experience where my life was, you know, in some way attacked, then my weaknesses would be on display.
Janet: Well, and that's what it means to be like Jesus.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: He is so patient with our weaknesses.
Jocelyn: Yes. So another thing that I just want to encourage everyone, especially for someone who's doing side by side ministry. And in this context is to be confident in the Lord and his promises. I know a lot of things about traumatized people, but I know them because of experience. I know a lot of things about Jesus because I've read it in the Bible.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: And it always is true. It will Always happen.
Janet: It's more important than your experience.
Jocelyn: It is way more important than your experience. So if I cry out to the Lord, he will answer me and comfort me. And I don't know that just because of experience. I know it because Jesus says it will happen. And so there's a level of confidence that I have in working with traumatized people because I've done it for a while. But there is a whole different level of confidence in what Jesus says in his word. And I can say, I am confident, if you cry out to the Lord, he will comfort you because it is true biblically. I also, would let them tell their own story to others. We might have between the two of us, some pre-organized statements that we can make in a moment of difficulty. Like if someone has a hard time talking or if they're stuttering in an answer, like I might know she's experienced something difficult and you know, it's,
Janet: I can help
Jocelyn: she's being reminded right now. But I need to let them tell their own story. That helps to protect confidentiality. Like just because they've shared stuff with me doesn't mean they want the whole world to know it. I let them speak what needs to be spoken. And then the final thing I would just say is, There are going to be things that remind them of trauma. If sex was a part of that trauma, they might be tempted to avoid that topic, but God has a lot to say about that topic. And we need to know God's standards so that we can abide by it. So we don't want to be rude or unkind or, you know, just brusque with that. But we don't need to shy away from that topic.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: If parents were a part of trauma, it's the same thing. God does teach parents what their life should look like and what their responsibilities should look like. And that needs to be part of our conversation. And I would do that gently and carefully. If driving a car was part of the trauma, then I would be really gentle and careful about Opportunities when we go places in a car.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: So the final thing that I would say is help your friend learn to handle anxiety and worry and fear biblically. Because trauma is often wrapped up in in fear and anxiety. Sometimes it's anxiety in retrospect. Like I didn't know what was happening at the time, but now that I've lived through it, like it was really scary and I should have been more afraid. So you probably need to help your friend have a godly view of anxiety and fear and worry and learn to handle those things in a way that honors the Lord. But to recap, I would say, get to know her.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: She's an individual and her experience is going to be very individualized.
Janet: And there's such hope there. The answers are in the word as we love like Jesus. Excellent.
Jocelyn: So our next question is, how can we use biblical counseling in a church that does not have a counseling ministry?
Janet: Well, and that's a good question. The first thing I would say is, when I think of what biblical counseling is, It's just Maybe you would call it more intense discipleship.
Jocelyn: I agree.
Janet: But it's just discipleship. So you don't really need an official title to disciple people. So I think sometimes what we mean is, how can I make my church have an official counseling ministry, call me a counselor, and assign me people? But I would say, You don't really need that. Just seek to be a blessing in your church as you have opportunities to walk alongside. The principles that you learn in biblical counseling just help you love Jesus better, know how to walk the way He wants you to walk, know how to deal with your own sin, and you know how to help others do the same thing. That's really all it is. So, I would say, if you're thinking, but I would like them to take that next step, That's not wrong that you desire that, but that may or may not be the priority of your church right now. Seek to be a blessing to your leaders. I would encourage you to talk with them and see how you can benefit them, whether or not it's an official ministry. Maybe they'll say, can you help us with this mentoring? Whatever. Can you help us look for ways you can be a blessing in the church family where God has put you?
Jocelyn: That's a great idea.
Janet: Maybe you could even offer, could I put on some discipleship training for other people? Could I help you guys do that? And I would say over time, if by the grace of God, using the word of God and in humility, I'm going to say first working on your own heart and life, not arrogantly thinking you have all the answers for everybody else, but working on your own heart and life. And then being able to help others grow in areas that are hard. If the Lord allows that, the value may start to be seen over time.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So trust God for the timing. You know, we're excited. We want this. And that's a great desire. But he is providentially controlling all of that. So you can just praise God that you don't have to and just get busy loving God and loving others around you.
Jocelyn: And we are not providential or in control.
Janet: No way. No way. True.
Here's another question that came in. I'm struggling with my sister resenting me for decades of choices that she disagreed with. What do I do? And another question that came in that we'll address at the same time. How do I handle difficult family relationships?
Jocelyn: Well, I can appreciate that this has a lot of story behind it that we don't get to hear.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: And so I'm not going to speak to specifics that I don't know. So I'll talk to generalities. So I would say, how do we handle a situation where a family member does not agree with us? How do we handle difficult family relationships? And I think it's really important to start off by remembering the biblical concepts of personal responsibility and biblical accountability. And actually, we're planning to record a full session on personal responsibility next year. It's a topic that I've really been wanting to teach on for a while. And so follow next year for more information on this in greater detail. But to summarize biblically, we are responsible for ourselves, and our own decisions. We are also responsible to love and care for anyone under our authority. But we're not responsible to make everyone happy. I am responsible to please God, and biblically I know that I will give an account, but I'm going to be giving an account to God one day.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: I think if we're under someone's authority, we also give an account to them. That's biblically appropriate. Like I can give an account to my boss. I can give an account to my husband.
Janet: Not to your sister.
Jocelyn: I don't give an account to my sister unless she is like my legal authority, I guess. So, you know, I am responsible to make decisions that honor the Lord, that represent his values. I'm not responsible to keep everyone happy, but I am responsible to try to live at peace with all people. But I shouldn't sin in order to give a sense of false peace. Like I shouldn't do things that are not honoring to God to help someone be happy. And so it's a complicated issue. There's a huge backstory that we're not privy to, but I would say in this case, remember who you're responsible to, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ, and those who are in authority over you. And We can do our very best to live at peace with all people, but we will not be able to make everyone happy. And I need to examine my own heart and look at my own idolatries that might be impacting my view of how it's going. Like if I really, really want everyone to be happy with me, I'm really gonna struggle when people aren't.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: And so I need to make sure that I'm dealing with any kind of idolatry issues that might be making it more difficult.
Janet: Well, and you said one day you are gonna give an account to God. And it won't be for how they responded to you.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: But it will be for any of that idolatry. So the number one thing I want to work on when I'm having a difficult relationship is what is this bringing up in me that God wants to refine because that's what I'm going to give an account for.
Jocelyn: Yes. And I think a lot of times we try to squeeze our way out of difficult situations that are uncomfortable when really God is. I mean, he ordained them
Janet: He put us there.
Jocelyn: To refine me to make me more capable of serving others. So it's not bad. It's just hard. And I'll just piggyback right off that into how do I handle difficult family relationships? Well, I could start off by saying 100 percent of family relationships will be difficult at some point.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: And like, why do we think that they're not going to?
Janet: In part because we're in them.
Jocelyn: I'm influencing my family relationships and I have a heart of idolatry Sometimes. And so I just, you know, start off by having realistic expectations. Any relationship where two people are involved is going to have difficulty and we need to be prepared for it, which means we need to be quick at solving conflict, quick at communicating, having good godly communication patterns. But I also think it's really important to start off with proper definitions of family and proper understanding of the responsibilities of families. So, Ephesians 6: 4, we know that passage, parents are commanded by God to bring their children up for the Lord using two main tools, discipline and instruction. And to do that in a way that doesn't provoke our children to anger. We have multiple episodes about that, that we would encourage you to go back and listen to. What does biblical parenting look like? But parents have commands. And then children have commands in Ephesians 6:1-3, children are instructed to obey their parents and honor them as if they're doing that for the Lord. So like the understanding of children is that they are willing to be led by parents who are leading them. But in other places of scripture, you can see that the responsibilities inside of family relationships does not only extend to the parenting years and the childbearing years. Grown up children have responsibilities to their elderly parents.
Janet: We have an episode on that too.
Jocelyn: Biblically we need to fulfill our responsibilities to elderly parents. And then you can see an underlying expectation that we live within our family roles, obedient to scripture. And that we take care of each other and we honor each other. So there's all the one and others in scripture apply, I think, first to family relationships. They are our closest neighbor.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: And so we should be living out those one anothers. You could have difficult family relationships because someone is acting outside of their authority and you would probably need to get some wisdom about how to handle that very difficult situation. You could also have difficult family relationships because there's sin or suffering that's complicating it. Again, I would encourage you to speak to your pastor, get other people speaking into that situation. Family relationships are complicated. They're complex. There's a lot going on. You need a lot of wisdom. could be difficult because one spouse is not a believer or one spouse is a believer but not functioning biblically. All of that. It's super complicated. But the number one priority in all family relationships is to live out your relationships with the goal of honoring the Lord in your interactions. And it's not to get someone to change. It's not to have peace and it's not to grow up children that are successful. In every family relationship the goal is to honor the Lord in the way that you interact with each other. So husbands, that should be your goal. Honor the Lord and represent his values to your wife. Parents honor the Lord and represent God's values to your children. Children honor the Lord, represent God's values. Grandparents. So every single family relationship has the same ultimate goal. But one additional piece of advice I would share is, try to solve problems quickly. The longer you let problems build up, you're going to have resentment growing and bitterness growing. But if you keep problems solved, at least to the extent that you can, it's less likely that you'll have this mountain of unresolved problems that kind of like falls down on you when things get really rough. So I'd say, remember what family relationships are supposed to look like, try to live within those definitions, and then be diligent about solving problems biblically and also communicating biblically. The next question is how to navigate chronic illness while being homebound or even bed bound long term. How do I stay in fellowship when I often can't fellowship in person? I feel very separated from my local church and feel very lonely.
Janet: Wow, the first thing I just want to say is I'm so sorry.
Jocelyn: Yeah, that's rough.
Janet: That is painful, and we need to admit that, acknowledge that. You're in a position where you're learning to trust God with a life you didn't plan on, and that's just very painful. A resource that I would recommend, Paul Tripp wrote his book on suffering that is so good. And he too, I mean, his phrase was being sidelined at the top of his ministry. That he was in the best phase of ministry where he could impact people and share truth. He was old enough to have actually learned some things.
Jocelyn: He knew some stuff.
Janet: Yeah. And he could share it and then literally couldn't get out of bed.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: For a long time,
Jocelyn: I've heard that.
Janet: And I believe still has long term,
Jocelyn: I believe so. Yeah.
Janet: He doesn't travel. And how disorienting for him. Another resource that I would, you know, you mentioned feeling lonely and that is real and that is painful. You may have already listened to our podcast on loneliness, but I, really recommend that because it is good to get creative, trying to find ways to pursue community. Know that Jesus understands loneliness. He meets you there. And somehow, how do I make the goal not, I feel isolated, therefore I need to make my number one goal to not be isolated, and make my number one goal How do I honor the Lord in this. And if there's a way to not be isolated, I don't want to be isolated.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: Like it's not either or.
Jocelyn: It's an appropriate request of the Lord.
Janet: Yes. It's a value system to say, number one, if the best way that the Lord determines that I can look most like him and be most prepared for the day I see him is that I suffer with isolation. Can I grow to trust his heart? But underneath that, if number one is, I will honor the Lord regardless, underneath that, are there ways that I can creatively not be so isolated? And I actually believe that if I deal with the idolatry first, because quite frankly, for me, it starts idolatry, like I don't usually start on the biblical end, I start on the idolatry end of either I'm hurting, I want it to stop, I'm lonely, I don't want, whatever it is. I actually can't even see to creatively problem solve.
Jocelyn: That's true.
Janet: So like, I'm hindered over and over. Like, not only are my goals wrong, but because they're wrong, I'm blind. But when I can say, you know, Lord, number one is not that I'm never lonely. Number one is not that I'm not bed bound. Number one is You were willing to die a horrific death so that I'll be with you forever. Whatever you ask of my life, it's yours. As I wrestle myself there, I actually believe you'll see more clearly to get creative. Because it won't be, I can't go to church, so there's nothing. It might be, you know what? I can zoom in on some of them. Maybe I can host the Bible study and you think, well, but I couldn't, but I have good friends who are willing. Even if I'm bed bound.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: You know, we had a precious friend live with us for a while. She was having some health issues, then they got worse. So she basically lived on her couch. And my kids were little. And I would look over and because she couldn't sit up, they had put a TV tray over by her and they were all three playing cards. And I'm like, creative.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: But if she had said, I can't play cards because I can't get to the table.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Poor me.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: She wouldn't have had anything. But when you're just like, this is where I am. How do I honor the Lord here? People brought cards to her and she laid on the couch and they played cards.
Jocelyn: That's cool.
Janet: So I think I'll see when I stop thinking it has to be a certain way about can people come to me? Well, that's awkward. I can't host with snacks. Right.
Jocelyn: Well, don't host with snacks.
Janet: Right. And maybe tell them, right? Bring their own. Oh, I hate for them. It's okay.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So I think you'll be more creative if you can get past, here's how I believe it ought to look. Find a prayer ministry. Ask God to help you trust him and look for creative ways to be part of his body. Because I do believe he wants you to be part of his body.
Jocelyn: Absolutely.
Janet: And it might mean saying to your friend, Can you help me come up with ways? But, we don't want to do that when the idolatry is, I shouldn't have to do this. I should be able to go to church. It's a good desire. When I can get beyond that, it opens my mind to all kinds of ways and to even humbly in my weakness, saying to somebody else, I'd like to find ways to be connected. Do you have ideas?
Jocelyn: Yeah. I was bedbound for a period of weeks waiting for back surgery and I had a six month old baby, and a three and a half year old daughter. And I had to ask for help because it was impossible. I could not pick my child up. And so one of the things that I wanted to just throw on as a PS is to let your church family know ways that they could serve you while you are bedbound.
Janet: Yep.
Jocelyn: That was such a, it was like weirdly wonderful to lay on my sofa and watch people clean my house around me with joy overflowing out of their hearts. And so by communicating our need, we allowed other people to experience the joy of serving God by serving me. And it wasn't embarrassing. It was very life giving. Some really great friendships were forged during that time.
Janet: Love it.
Jocelyn: And they had the opportunity to experience the joy of the Lord by serving me in my,
Janet: time of need. Yeah.
Jocelyn: Yeah, my sofa boundness.
Janet: Love it.
Jocelyn: it was a really great way to have community, even though I could do nothing.
Janet: Right. Excellent. Next question, how to not grow weary in giving biblical advice and counsel to someone who's more difficult to receiving that truth. You're constantly directing them to God's word, but things don't seem to really stick and I feel like a broken record.
Jocelyn: That is rough.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: I would advise you in this situation to examine your goal in giving advice. So think, why am I sharing advice with them? What am I trying to accomplish? What is my intention? If your goal is to change someone, then you're going to be failing before you even start.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: I can share advice and be incredibly irritated when people don't listen to me. And when I examined myself, what I wanted out of that was for people to listen to me.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: I'm not saying that that's automatically what's happening here,
Janet: Sure. But we have to consider that.
Jocelyn: We have to consider that. If your goal is to share the living active word of God in opportune moments, to minister the word of God, then you will always be successful. And I think that's important to realize. If your goal is to get someone to change and they don't change, you will be a miserable failure. But if your goal is to share the living word of God that is effective, then you can do that, whether someone listens to that or not.
Janet: Right. They still might not change.
Jocelyn: They still may not. But we don't have the power to change anyone. God's Word is effective. It always works. So share God's Word for the purpose of sharing God's Word alone, not for it to produce some result. We can pray that the Holy Spirit will help them hear the Word, believe the Word, obey the Word, but ultimately It is not my job to convince someone to obey. I do need to be responsible and like, you know, present a compelling argument.
Janet: Sure.
Jocelyn: Like I need to think through what I say. I might also ask if a person that I'm ministering wants biblical advice or counsel, because sometimes they don't listen because they didn't really want the advice. They wanted something different.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: And so, is that person asking for your advice? I have had to learn more and more and more that no one needs to hear my advice if it is unrequested.
Janet: And you know what , Brent helped me with that because I assume when you tell me something you want my advice.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Sometimes I just want to tell you.
Janet: And Brent was like, did they ask you?
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And I'm like, yeah. Well, they didn't actually ask. Oh, wow. I just started giving advice.
Jocelyn: Don't you think it's a humility builder to realize sometimes people talk, but they're not asking me to tell them my thoughts about it.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: Like my way of serving them is listening to them in their time of need. So, is that person asking for my advice or am I offering it Unasked for. Am I pushing it on them? If they're asking for it, then at some point I might follow up with some questions about how they perceive it serving them. If I share advice and they don't seem affected by it.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: I still don't need to assume anything about it. Like I just need to ask, like you did ask for my advice. And I've given you my counsel from God's word, but you don't seem to be listening to it. So what was your reason behind asking me my advice? And then I would have to make a decision about how I continue to be involved
Janet: What's most loving?
Jocelyn: In that situation. The other thing to think about is there's also incredible effect on the person who is sharing, even if the person who is receiving the advice doesn't seem to be accepting it. So there's tremendous growth and development that happens when you have to think through hard situations and search out God's word. So maybe God wants you to share the truth for you to learn from it, for you to gain out of it more than what that other person is getting. So you don't quite know what all God is doing in that situation. But, if you're sharing the word of God, if that's your goal, then you will be 100 percent successful every time you share the word of God. And we must remember that the word of God is what's living. The word of God is what's effective. word of God is active. So it cuts to the quick. We don't cut to the quick. And so when we're using the word of God to communicate with people, let the word of God do its job and you stand back and allow God to make that work out, however he wants it to work out.
Janet: Right. And if you're finding over time, as person said, I'm a broken record. You don't need to continue to repeat what you've said.
Jocelyn: No. You don't. That's a waste of your energy.
Janet: Yeah. So you can pray for them, but those become different questions in that. But I love your answers. That's very helpful.
Jocelyn: The next question is how should Christians or biblical counselors respond to psychology such as the book, The Body Keeps the Score. Also, how should we view the physical component of issues we face?
Janet: Okay, that's not a two minute answer, so what I'm going to do is recommend some resources. It's an excellent question, but I don't believe it's short answer because I would not do it justice. But, we do need to learn how to interact. The first thing I want to encourage any of you to do is listen to a, we have our Biblical Counseling Training Conference, and a year ago, I believe, our pre conference was a Saturday with Dr. John Henderson speaking, on this subject and he actually does a session on the effect on the body of trauma. And I know that he references the book, The Body Keeps the Score. So I highly recommend that. And the summary, our body does have an influence, but it is never determinative. Thank God.
Jocelyn: And our body is influenced, like the stuff that happens to us affects our body.
Janet: That's right. Our body is created by God. There's so much more you could say that doctors could say much better. Here's a lay way that I think about some of these things. Our body was created by God to be habitual. What does that mean? It means that when you brush your teeth, you don't think about how any more.
Jocelyn: You don't have to think about walking upstairs. You can just do it.
Janet: You can just do it. Why? Because you've created the habit and that's a gift from God. Oh my word, how exhausting would the day be if I had to think about every little thing. So from God before sin, that was all good. Well now it can be trained in a lot of different ways. Sometimes because of my own sin, sometimes because of suffering, my body has been trained in other ways. So does it have an impact? Can it be influenced? Sure. But it is not determinative and the thing to think through with secular psychology. They can describe some things and that can be interesting and that can be helpful, but they have an assumption already that we're only neurons and flesh. We don't have a soul. They have no category for that, so they can't even consider the impact of the soul on the body or the body on the soul. Is the body responding that way because of its interaction with the soul?
Jocelyn: We see in scripture all sorts of ways that that happens.
Janet: Because, how come two people that go through a similar event, their bodies respond differently. If we're only a body, they should always respond 100 percent the same. But they don't.
Jocelyn: But they don't.
Janet: Why? Because I believe it's interacting with our soul. So it depends on what the soul brings into that. So we. have the privilege of soul work and we can seek to mitigate those bodily responses in order to make room for soul work. So if my body has been influenced and I've learned over the years that the way to survive hard is to mentally go somewhere else. I've trained my body and now when you say, Janet, I need to have a hard conversation with you. My mind goes,
Jocelyn: Immediately. Yep.
Janet: It's just what I do. So is that happening? Yes. Is it determinative? No. So then, but if I know that as a counselor, I'm going to be going. Okay. I want you to stay with me. Can you stand up? Can you, you know, whatever. I'm trying to help rehabituate your body. I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but it is not less than that.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: So, you know, and to realize in secular, I do believe many times the goal is to feel better and to get your body back to whatever is quote unquote normal.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Homeostasis.
Janet: Whatever that is. But I would say our goal isn't to change the body. Our goal is to have a joyful soul that trusts God even in a broken body. So over time, will it rehabituate? We hope so.
Jocelyn: It's possible.
Janet: It's not like If it's never what it would have been if this hadn't happened, if my body continues to react quickly, then I'm a failure. No! Can I trust the Lord and rejoice in a body that is broken? It's just broken in maybe different ways than somebody else's body.
Jocelyn: And apparently, according to the scripture, God custom chose that set of suffering for me because it conforms me to the character of Jesus Christ. Yes. And so he believed it was best and so allowed it to happen. It's tough though.
Janet: It is tough.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And there's a lot more to it. So I do recommend, listen to that whole pre conference.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: there are certainly many other things we may be able to link as well. That's a deep question, but I do think there's at least a recognition that secular psychology doesn't recognize there is a soul. And we have to know that. When I read The Body Keeps the Score, that would be It's more determinative if there's no soul.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: And that's how they're saying it.
Jocelyn: It's very biological.
Janet: Yes. Here's another question that came in, regarding the dementia episode that Keri Allen did with us. Question was, how to address when your loved one needs an alternative living arrangement when the person becomes hysterical or unable to live with you for a variety of reasons.
Jocelyn: That's a tough question.
Janet: Yes. So we have asked Keri to handle that one herself.
Keri: I will say this is not an uncommon problem. Sometimes this does happen, sadly, you know, as dementia progresses, and you lose your ability to think clearly, you know, sometimes Behavior hits a point where, for whatever reason, for safety reasons or for just emotional well being, it just isn't feasible for a loved one to either live at home or to live with their family. So, I would say if you think you are getting to that point, I would say the first thing to do is talk to your doctor, or talk to your loved one's doctor, rather. sometimes there's some medications that can be used to help calm some of the hallucinations or delusions that make those behaviors really difficult. sometimes, I think as we talked about in the dementia episode, there can be some underlying infections that can really easily be cleared. That can really decrease the confusion and agitation. So I'd say first off, talk to your doctor and tell them what you're noticing. Tell them what's concerning. And ask them if there's anything that can be done from a medical standpoint to make those behaviors a little bit more manageable. The second thing I would say is look into changing up or getting more help in whatever living situation they're already in. So, if that's them living at home, maybe there's a nurse that just isn't clicking with that person. Or, maybe, you know, whoever's coming into the home to help needs a break and you need to switch it up a little bit. Or, maybe there's no help coming into the home. So, I'd say try to keep the loved one in the same living situation as much as you can, because that will, anytime you move someone who has dementia behaviors, it's going to, at least in the short term, make their behavior a little worse. it may in the long term be more helpful. that's how it was. for me when I was taking care of my dad, but, try to keep them in the same living situation if you can. And if it's just like, hey, we've talked to the doctor, we've looked into getting more help or changing up our help or whatever, and it's just still not working, this is when it would have been really helpful to have communicated with your loved one before, they entered dementia or to have talked with your other family members about caring for that person in their dementia beforehand. So, if you have done that. Then the path is really clear. You've already planned out what was going to happen at this point. You've already communicated with everyone what was going to happen if, this happened and now we're here. so, but even if not, now you kind of have to play catch up a little bit where, if you're in a position where you feel like your loved one really does need to move to a different living situation, then it's time to start doing some research and, I would talk to your elder law attorney to make sure that you know what your options are financially. if you need a social worker to help you, there are lots of social agencies that are local to specific areas that have social workers that help with this exact issue. So you can call your local center for aging to get help with that. one company that I used that was super helpful time and time again, when I needed different placements and different services for my dad was a company called Care Patrol, and they offer free consultation. They help you figure out what are the options in your area. Can you afford the options in your area? What do they cost? How do you go about applying for it and what those services would really look like? whether that's, you know, an assisted living or a senior living or long term care or, Bringing meals into the home. There's just any number of services that care patrol can help you Coordinate and they're really really knowledgeable about what is available in your area. And that's a really great resource. So I would say if you think you're getting to this point with your loved one where they cannot live at home or they cannot Live with you anymore I'd say first, talk to the doctor, make sure that there's not some underlying medical issue that could be really easily solved with either a medication adjustment or some minor lifestyle adjustment. Second, look into changing up or getting more help in the living situation they're already in, because it may just be you just need somebody new, some new eyes, you know. but again, if none of that is working, I would say hopefully you've had a plan before now for what was going to happen when you hit this point. But, even if you didn't communicate with the, family members. whoever is helping coordinate that care, talk to your elder law attorney or your financial planner to make sure that, you know, that your loved one's care will be covered. and then do research on where you think this person, would be. Best taken care of given their unique situation and if you need help with that again care patrol is a great resource for that and nothing beats just going in person and touring places and looking for yourself and seeing how it smells seeing how it looks seeing how the staff act and it's a hard place to be in for sure But it is not impossible and thankfully we live at least here in America We live in a country where there are a lot of resources available, even if you have to do a fair bit of digging to figure out what's going to be a good fit for your loved one. I'd also add, even if you do switch up their living situation and it just ends up being a bad fit, you can always, you know, Move them back out. You can find a new place, if that place does not work out. So, don't feel, try to get it, you know, right the first time if you can. It, the less you move a person, you know, the less confusion you're going to get, which is great. But, you know, even if it doesn't work out. end up going well the first time around, that's okay. And you tried and you can tour other places and try again, you know? So anyway, those would be my bits of wisdom for someone who finds themselves in that kind of a situation.
Jocelyn: Thanks Keri. We really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on that. It's a tough question and would obviously require lots of prayer and wisdom and we're grateful to have your thoughts on it. Okay. Our final question is, what does it look like practically to have joy? I know it isn't just putting on a happy face, but what does joy through tears look like?
Janet: Oh, wow. That's excellent. Uh, And I could see this being an episode in the future, but for now this really was helpful to me to think about. My husband and I've actually been talking about this a lot. What does it look like in a season of difficulty, trial, and pain to have joy?
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: What is that? So, first of all, I'm always about resources, right? We will be linking, Paul Tripp did a three part podcast series on joy that I really found helpful. his second one is on suffering and joy. And that was good.
Jocelyn: That's a great resource.
Janet: Yeah. I mean, one of the things he says is basically Romans 8: 18 is the passage he's going through assumes suffering.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: And where is the joy? That in the suffering, his grace meets you there. He talks about his grace meeting you there, his grace intervening when we don't know what to say. That verse 30 tells us his grace is unstoppable. We will be glorified. He will provide for us. Verse 32. He's already done the very hardest thing. So we know that he's going to do anything lesser and that it's a providing grace. He will always give us exactly what we need when we need it. And that it's inseparable. The end of Romans 8 says nothing will separate you. So if you think about and it talks about when you're being persecuted in the midst of famine in the midst of-- So joy is not this bubbly ooey gooey life is great what is joy if it's not that bubbly feeling? Well, at least what we know Is it's a result of understanding God's work of grace in the midst of our pain. I think about just recently some difficult things we've been through, and literally as we were praying, and I was specifically praying for help, the phone rang. And an hour later, somebody had just called and ended up sharing the truths we needed to hear.
Jocelyn: Oh, that's so cool.
Janet: And the Lord knew that. Like I was like, Oh my word, I was literally praying for that.
Jocelyn: That's amazing.
Janet: And the phone rang.
Jocelyn: As you were praying.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: That's so cool.
Janet: So it's like, , what does that do? That increases my joy, but the situation was still painful. So then it's okay. Definition people, how would you define joy? I don't know how I would, but John Piper defined it as this, a good feeling in the soul produced by the Holy Spirit as he causes us to see the beauty of Christ in the word and in the world.
Jocelyn: That's super cool. That's a great definition.
Janet: Isn't that interesting?
Jocelyn: That's very cool.
Janet: I was like, Okay. That's very helpful.
Jocelyn: Not at all what the random person in the world would say defines joy as.
Janet: No. So I think it was Paul Tripp that talked about there being a contentment and a confidence and a hope. That there's that deep seated contentment and confidence and hope. And then we have this definition by Piper. Here's a few of the things that he says I found really helpful. The Holy Spirit does this work, but not magically without my mind being engaged. But by causing me to see the glory and beauty of Jesus Christ.
Jocelyn: That's neat.
Janet: So what's my responsibility? That that's what I'm thinking about, which took me back to what Paul Tripp just said.
Jocelyn: You're looking for it. Yeah.
Janet: He's like, go to Romans eight and you know why you have joy? You remember these things. Look, God is with me. Look at the grace he's giving me. Look at that. He'll never leave me.
Jocelyn: Abundant provision.
Janet: Yes. Yes. He says, it's not just in the word that we see Christ. We see him in his gifts and in people. We see him in his gifts of nature. We see him in his gifts of food and all the good things that our father in heaven gives us. Every gift of Christ to us is intended to be a communication of something of himself.
Jocelyn: That's neat. That's a cool quote.
Janet: When I'm meditating on those things, it doesn't make the suffering gone. It gives me joy in the midst of the suffering. Makes me think of 2 Corinthians 6: 10 where he says we're as grieving yet always rejoicing.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So apparently I can do both at the same time. And it's a recognition that is from the Holy Spirit, but I have a part. My part is to meditate on the truth that I just shared and to know that God delights to give me joy.
Jocelyn: Well, one of the things that gives us joy is getting to be a part of this podcast for four seasons now.
Janet: Wow.
Jocelyn: Can you believe it?
Janet: No.
Jocelyn: This is the last episode of season four. And we're just so grateful that we get to be a part of this, that you guys listen to us, that you're receiving any benefit from our fumbling attempts to encourage you. So thank you.
Janet: That speaks to the power of God.
Jocelyn: Thank you for joining us on this journey and being a part of our life for the last four years. We're excited about season five.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: We're excited about our season five scripture challenge, which you'll be learning about very soon. Watch out for a mini episode to explain what we're going to be challenging you to do.
Janet: Maybe, I don't know, tomorrow.
Jocelyn: During 2025. But it is an honor to be a part of this podcast and to get to talk about Jesus on purpose every month.
Janet: Yes.
To keep from missing any future episodes, please sign up for our newsletter on our webpage faithlafayette.org/JJP From there you can also subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, or Spotify. You can also visit us on our Facebook page or Instagram at Joyful Journey Podcast. If you have questions or comments for us, you can email us at joyfuljourneyquestions@outlook.com. Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.
Host Janet and her husband, Brent, also speak at a variety of conferences as a way to raise money for the seminary. If you want to look at what they offer or book them for a conference, go to their website.
