Changing What You Treasure — with Brent Aucoin
This is a special one! Joyful Journey welcomes Janet's husband, Pastor Brent Aucoin, to talk about the desires of our heart. Why do we do what we do? Because we want what we want. But why do we want what we want - and why do we want it so badly? Brent and Janet take a look at Genesis 3 to explore the process that leads us to the decisions we make - and how to align our heart's treasure with God's so that our lives reflect the beauty of His character and goodness. Main Passage: Genesis 3
Facebook, Instagram
Donate to Joyful Journey Podcast
Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.
Transcript:
Resources:
Books
Gospel Treason - Brad Bigney
Counterfeit Gods - Tim Keller
Gospel Primer - Milton Vincent
Gentle and Lowly - Dane Ortlund
Diagram
Changing What You Treasure Diagram - Brent Aucoin
Teaching
Changing What You Treasure - Brent Aucoin
Janet: I don't just need to feel better. I need the truth. And ultimately that will make me better.
Alexandra: I just want to make it as totally simple and no brainer as possible for ladies to see that
the Bible is really applicable to their everyday life.
Jocelyn: When they understand theology, the application flows out of it quickly with joy.
Janet: It is a journey, but even the journey itself is joyful when I'm doing it, holding the hand of
my savior and trusting him all along the way. This is the joyful journey podcast, a podcast to
inspire and equip women to passionately pursue beautiful biblical truth on their journey as
women of God. When you choose truth, you're choosing joy. Typically, I’ll be joined by either
Jocelyn or Alexandra, but for our first full episode listen as all three of us discuss the topic of
joy.
Janet: Well, welcome back once again. I'm Janet. And I'm so excited for a special guest today. I
am completely biased, but he's my favorite. My husband, Brent, is joining us today. Say hi,
honey.
Brent: Hey Janet.
Janet: I asked him to come and share a concept that has been incredibly helpful to me. And I am
thrilled you're going to get to hear about it too. I know that many of you might not have heard
him speak before, but if you have, you kind of know that he's known for saying "we do what we
do because we want what we want." And in our show notes, we're going to link a three part video
series about that called "The Heart of Change." But today what we want to talk about is
assuming that that's true, why do we want what we want? And how do we change that? I know in
the past, when I've gotten to see you teach this, you've used a diagram that helps people
understand where you're going.
Brent: Yes. So in this format, we're going to have to do something a little different.
Janet: Well, because I care about our listeners. Not only am I looking at a diagram because I get
to see it, we have put in your show notes, a diagram titled "Changing What You Treasure." You
can pause right now and get that diagram if it'll help you follow along. Or at least know that it's
there, and at any point you can go back and download that. I think that that'll be a help to you as
Brent teaches us how do we change what we treasure.
Brent: Yeah. You had mentioned that I was getting known for the phrase we do what we do
because we want what we want. And recently I had a friend said, well, I just heard a pastor quote
you for saying we do what we do because we want what we want.
Janet: You're famous.
Brent: Yeah. And I said, well, he's not quoting me. He's quoting the Bible. So I actually don't
know if I got that phrase from somewhere or-- But what do we have that we have not actually
received from somebody else. There's nothing original with us. And I can remember when I
began to learn the heart truths that it was through people like Paul Tripp and David Powlison,
who would come to the Faith Biblical Counseling Training Conference, and teach. And I've
listened under their ministry. And that's where I began to understand more and more about the
heart. And that began to revolutionize my life, as it apparently has done with yours,
Janet: No kidding
Brent: As well. And as you mentioned, the teaching that I have done on that there's a video at
faithlafayette.org/heart. This is a three-part series and that's like, I don't know, 16 years old.
Janet: Oh, honey, you don't look any different.
Brent: Thank you. You're my favorite wife. So, when I began to understand that, you know, I can
ask the question, we do what we do because we want what we want, but then that kind of begs
another question here. Well, Brent, why do we want what we want so intensely? Or so badly?
Janet: And I have to tell you that was huge for me. When you first started teaching this, it was
like, Oh, I get that. I get that I do what I do because I want what I want. And it was a few years
of being incredibly frustrated that I could not figure out how to change what I wanted, even when
I knew that what I wanted wasn't best.
Brent: Yes. And let me again, say, I want to give credit to whom whom credit is due. When I was
in seminary and I wasn't making these connections at this moment in time, but there was one
professor, Dr. Richard Averbeck that to begin to describe something that was going on in Genesis
chapter three. And he provided the framework for which I'm going to talk to you about right
now. So let's kind of dive into this for just a moment. Why do we want what we want so badly?
What's the treasures of our hearts? And the passage that I'm going to today is going to be Genesis
chapter three. And let me just start off by looking at verse six here, "when the woman, Eve, saw
that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the eyes and that the tree was desirable
to make one wise." So right there, right there desirable to make one wise, there are the desires of
the heart. That's what she's treasuring right there. So she does what she does in the next phrase.
She took from his fruit and ate. So her behavior came from her desires. But something has
happened with Eve at this moment in time, her treasure changed. What she was living for
changed right at that moment. So this passage will begin to help us to understand what's going on
before our treasure changes from God to something else. And let me just rehearse for just a
moment that we all treasure something, we're all living for something. We all have something
that we find satisfaction in, that we're chasing after. And if it's not God, it will be something else
in this world. So the earthly pleasures and treasures. Blaise Pascal said something like this. I'm
not going to quote it exactly, but we have a God-sized hole in our hearts. And if it's not filled
with God, we will be chasing after something else. And those things, because they're not God,
will never, ever fulfill us.
Janet: And would you agree that that is not just for unbelievers?
Brent: Absolutely, I would agree.
Janet: God does not fill our heart immediately because we're believers.
Brent: No, it's a process of
Janet: Yeah.
Brent: progressive sanctification that for the rest of my life, I will be chasing after something
and I should be learning that my satisfaction and my desire, my treasure ultimately is God. One
verse that comes to my mind is Psalm 42 verse one. "As the deer pants for the water brook, so
my soul pants for you, oh God." That's a verse that indicates that at a point in time, this Psalmist
treasured God, more than anything else. Now, that doesn't mean he did all of his life. But how do
we get to a point where our ultimate treasure is the Lord and that's in a growing fashion or Psalm
73: 25, when it says, "besides You, Oh God, I desire nothing else on earth." I find myself, and
you know this, Janet, you live with me and I long for the praise of man.
Janet: No way.
Brent: I long for ease and comfort. But over the course of the years, you've known me, and over
the course of our marriage, And you and I are both growing in desiring God, more than anything
else. And we're coming alongside each other and pointing one another toward God being the
desire of our heart. So in Genesis 3: 6, Eve's desire, her treasure changed. And so the question
becomes, how did that happen?
Janet: Yes, because she was walking with God. I mean, she had seen God and treasured God. So
why would that change?
Brent: Yes. And Genesis three actually gives us the answer for that. Now, you have made a
interesting comment. She was walking with God. That's all that she and Adam knew at that point
in time in Genesis three. I'm going to read the passage Genesis 3: 1 -11 here in just a moment.
And before we do, I want to give you some context here. And this context is becoming more and
more well-known with the emphasis on biblical theology these days and developing themes that
run throughout the scriptures. But Adam and Eve were in something that I'm going to call a
paradise sanctuary. So when sanctuary comes to your mind, Janet, what comes to your mind
when I say sanctuary?
Janet: Think of a place where animals are not allowed to be hurt, they're safe.
Brent: Okay. They're safe and animals are not allowed to be hurting. Somebody else is not
allowed to be hurt. And that would be Adam and Eve. What else do you think of?
Janet: I think of growing up where we went to church was called a sanctuary.
Brent: Yes. Growing up, possibly in the old days, the church house was called God's house and
called a sanctuary. And that terminology probably came from the Old Testament temple
sanctuary. And I'm using that terminology also with the garden of Eden. And let me explain why
there is a parallel between the Old Testament tabernacle, sanctuary of God, where, you
mentioned that God was walking with Eve or Eve was walking with God, and the tabernacle
sanctuary. There's parallels there with the garden of Eden. So let me kind of trace those real
quickly before we get into answering the question of why do we want what we want so badly?
So here are the parallels in them. Tabernacle sanctuary and the garden of Eden. So you
mentioned that Eve was walking with God, and that was at Genesis 3: 8. And in Leviticus 26: 11,
God describes the tabernacle as a place where He would dwell with His people and He would
walk among His people. Also, do you remember when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the
garden of Eden, what was placed on the East side of the garden of Eden to guard the path into the
garden of Eden.
Janet: It's angels, cherubim.
Brent: That's right. So the cherubim were placed there. And cherubim always hover around God.
Think about Isaiah chapter six, when Isaiah saw the Lord high and lifted up and the cherubim
were there surrounding God. Now in Exodus 26, when God commands Israel to make the
tabernacle with curtains, those curtains were embroidered with cherubim all around the
tabernacle. Here's what we're seeing, the tabernacle, God walking with His people, with the
cherubim around God's dwelling place is beginning to echo Eden. Now, another parallel there is,
do you remember what's in the center of the garden of Eden?
Janet: A tree.
Brent: A tree.
Janet: Thought it was a trick question.
Brent: No trick questions here. So it was a tree. And in Exodus chapter 25, God commands
Moses to make a lampstand. And it's described in terms of branches and bulbs and cups shaped
like almond blossoms. So the menorah was indicative of a tree. And so, all of these things, when
in Exodus where God was beginning to re-establish His dwelling place with the children of
Israel, what that was saying is I want to recreate a taste of Eden with My people, because God
wants to dwell with His people. Eden was that first sanctuary of God with God dwelling with His
people. Now you mentioned something about a sanctuary, one of the characteristics was a place
of safety.
Janet: Yes.
Brent: Anything else you think of when we think of a sanctuary?
Janet: Well, I would say because it's a place of safety, it would certainly be encouraging life.
Brent: Absolutely. And that's what the tree of life that we just talked about represents. There was
no death in the garden sanctuary of Eden. Also sanctuary in the Genesis chapter two. And again,
we're setting up the context before Genesis chapter three. Innocence was in the garden of Eden.
There was no sin. And the word innocent in Genesis chapter two is not used, but it's pictured
there. Adam and Eve are pictured as in their childlike innocence. Do you have any thoughts on
exactly how that would be conveyed in Genesis chapter two?
Janet: Well, when you think about just the ability to be with each other and to not even have any
clothes on, and they're not even concerned about that, it's like they don't even have any concept.
Brent: Right. So, Janet we had kids when we were young. So who do you know that runs around
naked and not ashamed? And don't say me.
Janet: Well, back then it was our two and three year old. Josh and Karis had no sense of modesty
in that respect.
Brent: Right. Because there was nothing to hide. They didn't know that there was supposed to be
something covering them.
Janet: Yes.
Brent: And so Adam and Eve are pictured in childlike innocence here naked and not ashamed.
There was nothing to cover. Let me mention one more characteristic of the sanctuary. Intimacy.
So in the paradise garden, sanctuary of Eden, there was intimacy between God and man. So
chapter one, God is pictured as this transcendent God who speaks, and things happen. In chapter
two. God is pictured as this God who reaches down with His hands and forms Adam, out of the
dust of the ground and talks with Adam. So He's intimately involved. So there's intimacy
between God and His creation. And there's intimacy between husband and wife as well. Same
imagery. They were naked and not ashamed. There was nothing between them, not even an
article of clothing. So intimacy, so nothing to hide. They were laid bare before God, if God is
pictured in the Old Testament, as the God who dwells in unapproachable light, Adam and Eve
could stand there without anything between them and God.
Janet: That's hard for me to even imagine, to just think of that level of transparency. My mind
immediately says fearful. And they weren't.
Brent: That's right, because they were innocent, there was life there and there was a level of
intimacy. And ultimately the garden of Eden-- Eden means delight or delightful-- so they were in
a place where dwelling with God and it was a delightful place. And that's ultimately what, so the
beginning of the Bible starts with a garden paradise and the end of the Bible ends with God
taking His people back to, it's not just a garden, but it's a garden city now filled with all kinds of
people.
Janet: Eden 2.0
Brent: Eden 2.0. It's not just a return to Eden, but it's a better Eden now with us all fully knowing
the character of God as well. That He's full of grace and mercy, because, well, what happens in
Genesis chapter three. So in Genesis chapter three, we get to see how Eve's treasure changed.
And all of what I just described the paradise sanctuary is going to be reversed. So the opposite of
innocence is?
Janet: Guilt.
Brent: Guilt. The opposite of intimacy, closeness between us and God and us and another person
or us and our spouse.
Janet: Distance. Alienation.
Brent: Separation. So, yes. And you're going to see that in Genesis three and the easy one here is
the opposite of life is death.
Janet: Death.
Brent: Yeah. So as we study Genesis three from this particular angle about the dynamic of human
behavior and the dynamic with the heart, so we're going to see basically seven steps here. That's
not a number I made up here for this. It just seems to fall in that. I know that's a unique number
in Scripture. I didn't seek to make seven, but I've got seven categories here and they're on your
show notes. As far as those categories that we will fill in. And in the process, we're going to
learn, why do we want what we want so intensely?
Janet: Yes.
Brent: Okay. So let me start in Genesis three. And I'm going to read for us Genesis chapter three,
and I may make some comments on the way here. And then we'll flesh out the seven steps of the
dynamic of human behavior in which we will find, why do we treasure what we treasure so
much? Verse one, chapter three. "Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field,
which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman. 'Indeed has God said you shall not eat
from any tree of the garden'. And the woman said to the serpent 'from the fruit of the trees of the
garden we may eat, but from the fruit of the tree, which is the middle of the garden, God has
said, you shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" I'm going to stop right there for just a
moment. When the serpent comes in and begins to speak with Eve. When Eve responds, would
you say that at least Eve has God in her mind at that moment in time?
Janet: Yeah. She says here's what God has said. So she's thinking about God.
Brent: Okay. And I would agree with that. And we have to determine exactly what she means by
the last phrase. Don't even touch it. Did she add to God's word or whatever. That's really not the
point I'm trying to make right here. There's all kinds of speculation about exactly the significance
of that or not. But at least we could say at this moment in time, in the brevity of her walking with
God, she at least has God's words on her mind.
Janet: Yes.
Brent: Something changes. " The serpent said to the woman, 'you surely will not die for God
knows that in the day you eat from it, your eyes will be open and you will be like God knowing
good and evil.' And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a
delight to the eyes and that the tree was desirable." There's our heart's desire right there, "to make
one wise, she took from its fruit and ate. And she gave also to her husband with her and he ate."
So in verse six, Is Eve's mind on God?
Janet: There is no indication that she was thinking about Him at all.
Brent: What's right in front of her face. What is the only thing that she can see?
Janet: A fruit that looks really good.
Brent: In the serpent's temptation here the serpent is placing in front of her, something other than
God and His ways, and that is in front of her face right now. And that's all that she sees,
something has changed and that has become desirable to her. And the moment it did, then she
acted upon that in her behavior. We do what we do because we want what we want. "She took
from the fruit and ate and she gave also to her husband with her and he ate." Verse seven. " And
then the eyes of both of them were open and they knew that they were naked." Now there was
something here that they had to cover. A blight on them. There was something dark in them.
That they had to cover before the God of unapproachable light. " So they sewed, fig leaves
together and made themselves loin coverings. And then they heard the sound of the Lord God
walking in the garden in the cool of the day. And the man and his wife hid themselves from the
presence of the Lord God, among the trees of the garden. And then the Lord, God called to the
man and said to him, 'where are you?' And he said, 'I heard the sound of you in the garden. And I
was afraid because I was naked. So I hid myself.' And He said, 'who told you that you were
naked? Have you eaten the tree which I commanded you not to eat?' And the man said, 'the
woman who you gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree and I ate.' And then the Lord
God said to the woman, 'what is this you have done?' And the woman said 'the serpent deceived
me and I ate.'" Now, if you're following along in the show notes here, there's a first box there first
blank there. So let me begin to tease this out. So I made the point that at least in Eve's mind in
Genesis chapter three verses one through three, God was still in Eve's mind.
Janet: Yes.
Brent: But in Genesis 3: 6, the only thing that was in front of her face was the fruit. Now much,
much theological ink has been spilled over exactly how could a good creation go bad? And the
Bible actually gives an answer to that. It may not fully satisfy us, but how is it possible that a
good creation went downhill? So the Bible gives the answer to that. So would Eve actually says
the serpent deceived me, Eve was not lying.
Janet: Yeah.
Brent: So the first step or the first dynamic of the human heart that leads us down the path of
death. So the dynamic of the heart here is deceit. Okay. So something external to Adam and Eve
had to come in and begin to weave deceit in their minds. So, Janet, what would you, you've
heard me teach this before? What would you say is the essence of deception?
Janet: Well, when I think, okay. Specifically here God, in her mind up to this point was good and
they walked with Him and they followed Him. But now deception. Satan is saying there's
something better.
Brent: Yes. So the way that I've captured this in my own mind, that helps me is the essence of
deception is that there is a another way other than God's.
Janet: Yes.
Brent: Another way other than God in His ways. So it doesn't matter what it is. So God is God.
And He prescribes for us what is best and good for us. And when something comes in and says,
there's a another way for us other than God and His ways to satisfy us or make us happy, then
that is deception. Okay. So there's another way other than God's. And we can see this in the
world all the time. Just one example. When you and I were serving in college ministry, the thing
that college students struggled with is just desiring another way other than God's in regard to sex
and intimacy.
Janet: Yes.
Brent: And the world screams out another way, other than God's ways.
Janet: And that it's a better way than God's way and far more satisfying than God's way.
Brent: Yes. If you just do it this way, why wait for sex and marriage in a covenant relationship
with your spouse? Why wait? Because there's thrills to be had right now and intimacy to be had
right now, and there's little consequences.
Janet: And I'll miss out.
Brent: And you'll miss out. So the essence of deceit is that there's another way other than God's.
Okay. So that has to be present. For desires to begin to change. So I'm going to flesh that out.
Now, when Satan also said this, surely you will not die. What do you think that Satan was trying
to get Eve to do at that moment in time?
Janet: Begin to wonder is God telling me the truth.
Brent: Exactly. So Satan actually uses the exact same phrase that God used to Adam and Eve in
Genesis chapter two, when God said you will die, and Satan just adds, no, you will not. But then
it's in the Hebrew. It's the exact same phrase except with the negation on it. So, the serpent is
here instigating doubt in Eve. Okay. So deceit is present that there's another way other than
God's and these childlike creatures, Adam and Eve, starting with Eve, had only known one way
and now deceit is in play here and now they have two ways. And Satan begins to cast doubt on
the other way. So deceit and doubts are present.
Janet: So now that I have a choice, maybe there's a way that's better. Not just another way, but a
way that's better than God's, if I doubt His heart.
Brent: That's right. Now, what do you think Eve was doubting? One thing or possibly doubting?
One thing is clear in the text. Another thing is an implication of the text.
Janet: I think she was doubting that they would die.
Brent: Yes. And that's always part of deceit that another way other than God's will not have
consequences for me, when God specifically stated that they would die. Now, I want you to, this
is something also that came to me about four years ago, when I was meditating on this. There
was only one thing that Adam and Eve had to take by faith in the garden of Eden. There was
only one thing. And that was God's command, God's word that if you eat this, you will die.
Adam and Eve had never seen death before. So they had never seen an animal die. They had
never seen a loved one die. They had never seen an insect die. All they knew was life. So when
God said dying, you will die emphatically, they had to take that by faith. That was the only thing
that they had to take by faith. They saw God. So their faith in God was sight. The only thing they
had to take by faith was God's word about the consequences. And Satan cast doubt on that.
Janet: It gives me more compassion for them because I can look at that and go, Oh, my word,
you had everything. Why in the world would you eat? But I look at what they had to take by
faith versus what I have to take by faith and how much I doubt the things that I have not seen
myself too.
Brent: Yeah. Yeah. So today death is all around us. We don't have to take by faith death.
Janet: Correct.
Brent: What we have to take by faith is life and eternal life and God. Now, so they doubted God's
word, but they also doubted something else. Satan coming in and said, if you just eat this fruit,
you're going to be like God, as if, as if God was withholding something from them, that if they
had it, they would be complete and satisfied in life. And there's something more than the
delightful garden of Eden. So if you just had this, you would be complete. And because God
didn't give it to you, God is not
Janet: Good.
Brent: Good.
Janet: And that's so powerful to me because I really see that in my own life. It's if I didn't doubt
that He was keeping something good from me, I wouldn't so clamor after things He has not given
me.
Brent: Oh, that's right. That's right. So, Eve was doubting clearly the word of God. And number
two, implication of the scripture, she was doubting God's goodness.
Janet: Yeah.
Brent: Now let's kind of summarize all of this. Deceit. There's another way that will be better for
me other than God. And doubt. Doubting God's word of what is right, what is satisfying about
who he is, and I'm doubting His goodness. All of that has to be in play. And then the third step
in the dynamic of the heart here is desire. . So the moment deceit and doubt were in play in
Eve's mind, Genesis 3:6 all that she could see was the fruit, and what that represented for her. To
be like, God that would be satisfying. That would make her whole. So there is her treasure right
there. So I ask you and asking the audience here, why do we want what we want so badly? The
answer to that is this. Because I'm already deceived and doubting.
Janet: True.
Brent: So I believe that there's another way other than God's. And I'm doubting God's word and
I'm doubting His goodness. And when all of that is present in me, it's no wonder I desire the
treasures and pleasures of this earth because I believe there's another way for satisfaction. And
I'm doubting what God says, that these things won't. Okay, so the desires of my heart. So we
started this podcast here with basically the question, but why do I want what I want so badly?
And we've answered it now. Now I'm going to flesh this out just a little bit more here, but we've
answered it in the sense of, because I'm deceived and I'm doubting. And I'm doubting God's
word and I'm doubting His goodness. That's always present. That will inform you going after the
treasures and pleasures of this earth. Okay.
Janet: Yes.
Brent: Now, so that was the third step: desire. The fourth step in your show notes, and I'll just hit
these others fairly quickly, and then we'll apply all of this. After Eve desired the fruit, well, we
know what happens. This is corresponds to the teaching that I've done at faithlafayette.org/heart.
The heart of change. I do what I do in my behavior because I want what I want. So what comes
after desire? Well, my behavior. "And she took from the fruit and she ate." So my behavior
comes from the desires in my heart.
Janet: And like a good pastor, they're all Ds. So this one is disobedience.
Brent: This one is disobedience. So if you're following in the show notes, number one is deceit.
Number two is doubt. Number three is desire. Number four is disobedience. And at the moment
Adam and Eve disobeyed, they felt something that they never felt before. Now the text doesn't
say this, but because of their actions afterwards, we know they felt shame or
Janet: Yes.
Brent: Yes because I'm alliterating these. Let's get a good word for shame here. A D word is let's
call it distress. Okay. They felt shamed. They felt the product of their guilty state.
Janet: For the first time.
Brent: For the first time. Adam and Eve had never known this kind of a feeling before. Again,
they're walking in innocence. They're walking with a God of unapproachable light without any
kind of need of covering. So they feel shame. They feel bad, the product of their guilty state.
Now I want you to notice something here. Janet and those who are listening, we feel what we
feel. This is something I'm not as well known for, but I, I do say it fairly regularly. Our emotional
state of being, we feel what we feel because we do what we do in our behavior, because we
treasure, worship, desire what we do in our hearts. And why do we treasure what's in our hearts?
Because we're already deceived and doubting.
Janet: Yes.
Brent: So we feel what we feel because we do what we do because we want what we want. And
then because Adam and Eve felt this shame or distress. Then they did something. Now they have
a blight in them. Now they have darkness in them and here is God walking among them. And the
God of unapproachable light comes and now they're stained with darkness. So what do they do?
Janet: They run and hide and cover themselves with fig leaves.
Brent: Yeah, when I teach this in a lecture setting their attempts to cover themselves are
relatively humorous. I mean, think about it. Adam and Eve put on fig leaves and they go into the
trees. What are they trying to make like?
Janet: Camouflage.
Brent: The camouflage tree and from the God who knows the difference between them and the
trees, God knows. But the dynamic here is this, that now there's a stain in them and they cannot
stand before the God of unapproachable light. So in their childlike state, they are trying to figure
out a way to adjudicate or cover or assuage their guilt. And so number six, the last step there in
the dynamic of the heart is they cover themselves, or they try to disguise themselves for the D
word. Today, you know, we might look at them and say, well, that seems totally inadequate. And
it was, but our ways of trying to cover our own shame and guilt are not any more sophisticated
today than fig leaves. So what are you thinking about, how do we tend to cover ourselves? Our
shame and our guilt, as we understand that we cannot stand before the God of unapproachable
light.
Janet: I think some of it is not taking responsibility for it because I can't even deal with thinking
that that's true of me. So it's not my fault. It's somebody else's fault either my parents' fault or it's
the way I was just made. Somehow, it's not my fault.
Brent: Yeah. And that's what Adam and Eve did. Eve said well, it's the serpent. And then Adam
said it's the woman that you gave me. And right there, you see the breakdown of the intimacy
that they enjoyed. So before, Adam was saying of Eve, this one, this one is flesh of my flesh and
bone of my bones. Now, Adam is saying that one and pointing the finger right there.
Janet: Yeah.
Brent: Right there is the breakdown of the intimacy because of the brokenness of Adam and Eve.
So they try to cover their shame and their attempts are insufficient. So blame shifting, masking it.
Janet: Sometimes trying to be really good. I will make up for it.
Brent: For church folks and religious folks in particular, trying to do penance, trying to cover
myself with my own righteous, good deeds. And the childlike creature is here, Adam and Eve,
their only response should have been, Lord have mercy on me, cause I don't know what to do
with this guilty state. And God eventually will cover their shame of their nakedness with animal
skins, as a symbol for the coming covering that they will enjoy. So the last step here, number
seven, is simply death. All of this leads to death. So in your show notes, if you're taking notes,
deceit, doubt, desire, disobedience, distress, and disguise, and it all leads to death. So we've
answered the question now, why do I treasure what I treasure so intensely? Because I'm already
deceived and doubting. Now I know that's pretty depressing, right? You encouraged so far?
Janet: Let's not stop here. Okay?
Brent: We're not stopping there. So, I'm an engineer and I like to think very sequentially and
logically, if we just reverse this, we can find the answers. So let's look at the path of life. Janet,
what would you say is the opposite of deceit?
Janet: What is true. The truth.
Brent: Yes. What is true. So on your show notes as well, the first path of life there, the first
blank is truth. The opposite of deceit is truth. And this one's pretty easy. The opposite of doubt,
what is that?
Janet: That would be to believe to trust.
Brent: And that's right. Trusting in God and His ways that they are best. And then number three,
that would generate in us the right desire. If the truth is that God and His ways are best. And I
trust that, what do I treasure?
Janet: I want Him and His ways.
Brent: I want Him and His ways. So truth and trust bring forth the desire and the treasure of God.
And then I've dropped the alliteration here because it just doesn't fit anymore. But number four,
after I treasure God in my heart, then what's going to happen? I'm going to want to walk in His
way. So I will be obedient.
Janet: Yeah.
Brent: And then after, as I'm walking in His ways in obedience, then I'm going to find joy and
peace, which is what people are longing for. I feel what I feel, because I do what I do, because I
treasure what I treasure in my heart. And then the opposite of covering or disguising myself.
Now, I can walk in the light of Christ. He has covered my sin. Now
Janet: I love that though. The world would say the answer that we're supposed to come to, they
don't of course go with any of the rest of these, but you just have to be yourself, be transparent,
be yourself. But what I see is we just need a better covering now.
Brent: Yes. We still have to have a covering, because we're still sinners. And there is -- I love the
way that the scripture picks up this theme. We are standing before God naked, no matter what we
try to do. And it's shameful because we're standing before God in the shame of our nakedness,
meaning that we are blighted with sin. We are dark. We are polluted. And we can't stand before
the God of unapproachable light, but the scripture picks up that theme of a covering that we
need for the shame of our nakedness. And let me give you one verse on that or maybe two. You
know, when was the day that you were probably best dressed ever Janet?
Janet: Well, I hope you're going to say my wedding day.
Brent: Yes. I'm not going to say your funeral. So it was your wedding day and that's true of all of
us. And when the scriptures begin to reach for a metaphor for the garments of our salvation, they
compare them to our wedding day. In Isaiah 61: 10, here's what Isaiah says. "I will rejoice
greatly in my Lord. My soul will exalt in my God for, He has clothed me with garments of
salvation. He has wrapped me with robes of righteousness." Now listen to this. Here is the
metaphor. Imagine the day you'll be the best dressed. "As a bride groom decks himself out with
a Garland and as a bride adorns herself with jewels." And we now know that's to be the
righteousness of Christ. Second Corinthians 5: 2 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on
our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
Janet: 2 Corinthians 5: 21.
Brent: Did I say that wrong? Yes. I said that wrong. So 2 Corinthians 5: 21.
Janet: Yep.
Brent: "So that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." That's a beautiful imagery
right there. So now we can stand before God in Christ's righteousness, that covers the shame of
our nakedness. So that's the dynamic that's pictured there both negatively and positively. So let
me just summarize here. Why do we want what we want so badly? We can answer that question
now, right?
Janet: Yes. Because I'm already deceived and doubting.
Brent: So then when we asked the question of ourselves, can I change my desires? How does
that happen? Can I change what I want? What would you say?
Janet: Well, for years I was trying and I couldn't. So I can't directly just say stop wanting, but
now that I know what's informing what I want, I can change. I can grow to not be deceived.
Brent: Yes. So let's look at the process one more time. The path of life, truth, trust, treasure,
obedience, joy, peace, walking transparently in Christ-righteousness. Whether we're talking
about ourselves or discipling others or parenting our kids, you know, we need to ask the
question, what step can we actually influence though, in our own hearts and in those other hearts,
like for example we've raised now two kids, Janet. So can we make them have joy and peace?
Janet: No. And I've tried.
Brent: Yes, we have. Can we make them be obedient?
Janet: Not really.
Brent: No, not at all. Can we make them love God, the treasure of our heart? Can we make them
treasure God?
Janet: No.
Brent: How about this? Can we make them trust God?
Janet: No.
Brent: So the only thing that's left for us is can we impart truth? And the answer is?
Janet: Yes.
Brent: And we can impart it in such a way that we're passionate about it because we live it, and
we know it. So out of all of these steps here, the only step that we can actually impact and
influence is the first one. As we began to minister truth to those that we're discipling, parenting,
counseling. And we do it in such a way where we adorn the truth in a passionate way.
Janet: I love that. Cause when you're adorning it, you're showing by if I'm living it, and they see
joy and peace, then it helps them to not doubt.
Brent: Right.
Janet: They can see that God's way is better. They're hearing the truth and they're seeing its
effect, at least in somebody else's life.
Brent: Right, right. Now out of those steps, truth, trust, treasure, and obedience, joy, peace, and
then transparently walking in Christ, which step do we tend to harp on the most? And we did it
too sometimes and many times more than I wanted to, and more than I should have, but which
step do we harp on the most as parents?
Janet: Oh, make them eat their green beans. How do I get them to not hit their sister? How do I
get them to obey?
Brent: Yes. Will you just eat that? Yes. Will you just do this? So that's step number four of the
entire process.
Janet: Yeah.
Brent: And we're missing the first one about trying to get to their hearts by elevating a better
truthful way about God and his delightful ways.
Janet: Which means I have to learn where they're deceived. I have to know enough to know
about what, where the deception is causing them to want the wrong thing. So that then I know
what truth to bring to bear, to help them to see that God's way is the only way of life.
Brent: Yeah. So let's talk about some practical applications of this at this moment in time. And
how do I begin to change what I want? The answer is the deceit of my mind has to be dispelled,
and then I have to believe the truth and trust God. And that creates a desire in me and Thomas
Chalmers. He was a Puritan and he says this: "Christians overcome the world by seeing the
beauty and excellence of Christ. They overcome the world by seeing something more attractive
than the world." And that would be Christ. So I have to, in my own mind, if I'm going to want to
please God/ delight in Him. I'm going to have to see that Christ, and God, and His ways are
better than anything else. And when I see that, then my desire will be for Him. Thomas
Chalmers goes on to say "that the love of the world cannot be expunged by a mere demonstration
of the world's worthlessness, but may it not be supplanted by the love of that which is more
worthy than itself. The only way to dispossess it of an old affection." And here's what he's known
for, "is by the expulsive power of a new affection," something greater that will fill up that
vacuum in the hearts, believing the truth about God and His ways are better. And then I will want
something different. So how do we apply this, Janet?
Janet: So one of the things I'm thinking about is, I'm going to have to understand first in my own
mind where I'm deceived and where I'm doubting. And how am I going to figure that out?
Because quite frankly, if I'm already deceived, I think I'm right.
Brent: Right.
Janet: So how am I going to figure that out? Some things that I think we would both recommend,
some resources that really can help you learn your heart. In addition to the series that will be in
our show notes, the video series that Brent has, that's been very helpful to me, a book by Brad
Bigney Gospel Treason, a book by Tim Keller, Counterfeit Gods. Both are just going to help you
begin to unravel what am I treasuring that's not God.
Brent: Right.
Janet: And where am I deceived? And one exercise that I have used a lot in counseling, but it's
not for the faint of heart, but it is very revealing. If you want to understand what you're
treasuring, so that then you can compare it to truth and see if you're deceived. I would encourage
you to take probably no more than two days, because it will be maybe very depressing. And
whenever you're not busy, write out what you're thinking when you don't have to think about
something else. What are you thinking about when you wake up? What are you thinking about as
you're making your bed and brushing your teeth? I don't have to really think hard in those
moments. So what are you thinking about instead when you're driving somewhere, when you're
preparing meals, when you're taking your dog out. If you just start writing down, here's what was
running through my head. Here's what I was thinking about. You're going to learn what you
treasure. And if it wasn't the same thing, God says we should treasure. You're learning where
you're deceived because you believe that's what will make you most satisfied. Now I know what
truths I need to counteract that.
Brent: So for example, if I'm looking at those moments where I'm just letting my mind, and I'm
not doing a task, and I'm thinking more about, Hey, when is the next time I get to relax? Or the
next time I get to be entertained, or the next time I don't have to work as hard as I am now?
Janet: Or why do I have to work so hard? I think I work harder than everybody else.
Brent: And why is this person or my boss doing this? And I don't like it. So. I'm believing that
the path of pleasure is a better way than God's path of submission and walking in His ways.
Janet: Yes. Or for me, I would say I can't believe how much people expect me to do. Whatever I
do, they just ask for more. I stay late and people still don't appreciate what I do. Nobody even
notices me. Yesterday when I said that to her. Oh, my word, I bet she's upset with me for what I
said. And I replay conversations in my head. Maybe I just need to go out of my way. I'm gonna
do something really nice for people today. Then they'll all like me and it's exhausting. And what
am I thinking. If I just have the praise of others and their appreciation that will satisfy me.
Brent: Yeah.
Janet: And what does God say? How about knowing that instead of I need entertainment, I need
pleasure, I need the praise of man, how about knowing that there's a God who knows exactly
what's best for my soul. He already knows me and all the reasons that there are not to praise me
and He loves me anyway. And that would be the truth I need to meditate on. That's better than
the praise of man.
Brent: Yeah. And God seeing right through the coverings that we tend to have our own
self-righteousness and He knows the shame of our nakedness, and yet He loves us anyway.
Meditating on that. And let me bring something to bear here on this discussion. You know, I
often ask this when I'm teaching this in a lecture format, where was Christ's clothes on the cross?
Janet: Well, they weren't on Him. They were fighting over them.
Brent: Not even a fig leaf on Christ. And the symbolism there is this, that Christ bore the shame
of our nakedness. And imagine this. So I mentioned Isaiah six earlier, where the Lord is high and
lifted up. And all of the angels, the flying angels around Him, covered their eyes. They did not
dare to look upon the Holy Holy, Holy God. But on the cross the Holy God came down and was
stark naked so that He was in front of everybody's eyes. And why was that? He was bearing the
shame of our nakedness, so He could clothe us in His righteousness. When I see His love for us,
that helps me to begin to see that entertainment, the pleasures of this world-- the pleasures of this
world never did carry the shame of my nakedness. Entertainment has never carried the shame of
my nakedness and die for me. So how can I chase after them and say, they will satisfy me when
God has loved me like He has. And when I see that truth and that gospel like that, and I believe
it, then I want to treasure Him.
Janet: Yes. If every day is hard. If I don't get a lot of entertainment, if no one appreciates what I
do, if nobody notices, compared to what's already been done for me, I can have incredible joy.
Brent: Yeah. Yeah. Any thoughts on helping parents with this truth?
Janet: You know, that's been an interesting thing. Brent, and I get to go and do parenting
conferences to try to help other families. And one of the things that I think we definitely learned
maybe later than our children would have preferred that we learned it, but we did eventually
once we understand our own heart patterns, our kids are probably going to struggle in a similar
way.
Brent: Yeah. And our kids are just like us in many ways.
Janet: I'm so sorry.
Brent: Combination of the good and the bad.
Janet: So knowing that, I'm now ready to compassionately help them. What in the world do I
have to judge my child for who is deceived in so many of the same ways I am, and is looking for
the wrong things, very similar to me. But if I know how to apply this in my mind, if I know how
to change, if I know how to change what I treasure, then I know how to help my child too. And
that gives hope.
Brent: Yes. And like one example of when we were dealing with a child that may just give you a
practical way to flesh this out. One of our children, when they were potty trained, well, they were
playing with a toy and they did not take care of their bodily functions in a timely way and that
individual waited too long. And then all of a sudden --
Janet: because that individual wanted to play.
Brent: Because the delight of the individual's heart was to play with their toys. I mean, who
wouldn't want that? And believing that I'm playing, the entertainment of my toy is better than
well taking care of my responsibilities before God. And so
Janet: in the bathroom.
Brent: In the bathroom. And so the child began to well, it was too late. The child ran to the
bathroom and then as the child was stripping, well, all the pee came out all over the floor, not in
the place where it's supposed to go. Now we could scold in that incident. We could spank at that
incident. But what do you do to get at the heart there, Janet? So you remember that?
Janet: I do remember that. I do remember that and thinking, what was the treasure and what was
the deceit? The treasure, or the most important thing is this toy, and the deceit that's what's going
to satisfy. And God's way of, I really just need to stop what I'm doing and handle responsibilities
first is wrong. So it was, how are we going to communicate God's way is better? If you do things
God's way, life is better. Well, now a two minute break to go to the bathroom became at least 30
minutes of cleaning the bathroom.
Brent: And recognize that, y ou know, four year old, three year old child cleaning the bathroom.
Janet: I had another 30 minutes afterwards
Brent: But parenting is not efficient. Sin doesn't occur on schedules. Yes, we had to clean it up all
afterwards again, but why do we do that?
Janet: Because then hopefully the child is seeing God's way would have been better two minutes,
come back, play with stuff. But work first, then play. But when I idolize my way, I don't get more
pleasure. I actually get the opposite.
Brent: Yeah. So let me just kind of summarize the teaching for this podcast. How do I begin to
desire God and nothing else on this earth? How do I pant after God the way the deer pants after
the waters. Ultimately, I have to see that He's better than anything else. So believing the truth of
the scriptures and whatever's going to help me to do that. And seeing the truth of the scripture,
seeing Him. And seeing His beauty and His goodness. And remember, doubt is always doubting
the goodness of God. But seeing the goodness of God as ultimately manifested in the gospel and
believing that. And then how could I want anything else? And that's a lifetime process. Where I,
over the course of my life, as I root out the deceit and the doubts, I begin to treasure God more
and more over the course of my life. When I get to the point where I can say, beside you, God, I
desire nothing else on this earth. And that's our prayer that we would all be on that journey to get
there.
Janet: Yeah. So thank you. As we are closing, I want to mention some resources. Something we
didn't really talk about, but I think is in the background of all of this. What's going to help me as
I begin to see my heart? And what's going to help me treasure Christ? A couple of books that
have really helped us to understand the heart of Christ. One is Gospel Primer. We've mentioned
this in other episodes. We will continue to, because especially if you're going to take some time
to look at your heart and be possibly overwhelmed and discouraged at what's actually in your
heart. Here's what we need to remember. God already knows that. You're the only one learning it
right now. And his heart for you is what you read about in the gospel.
Brent: Yes.
Janet: Another book that has just come out, Gentle and Lowly this year by Dane Ortland, seeing
the heart of our savior for those who are repentant and know him. Man, as I read that book and
saw his heart, I can tell you one of the things that did for me is made me want to repent more
quickly. I want to run back to a God who was like that. So as we're talking about understanding
our heart, these books will be important too. We're also going to link a session that Brent does
really about this called how "Deception Stimulates Idolatry." But it's the same thing that Brent
just talked about today. So I encourage you to look at that. And I've mentioned Gospel Treason,
Counterfeit Gods. All of those things will also be listed in our resource section. So please take a
look at those. Now come back for our next episode. Jocelyn is on her six month hiatus. And we
will be starting back with Alexandra and I'm excited to hear from her. She's going to talk with us
about the role of prayer in our temptations. So I hope you can join us for our next episode. Thank
you.
To keep from missing any future episodes, please sign up for our newsletter on our webpage
joyfuljourneypod.com. From there you can also subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, or
Spotify. You can also visit us on our Facebook page or Instagram at Joyful Journey Podcast. If
you have questions or comments for us, you can email us at
joyfuljourneyquestions@outlook.com. Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible
Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to
receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.
Host Janet and her husband, Brent, also speak at a variety of conferences as a way to raise money
for the seminary. If you want to look at what they offer or book them for a conference, go to their
website.
