Embracing Weakness
We as humans are naturally limited in our strength, and there’s much we cannot accomplish through our own power. What wisdom does the Bible offer about our inherent human weakness?
In this week’s episode, Janet and Jocelyn explore the concept of weakness and what Scripture reveals about the limitations we were created with. The ladies discuss how embracing our weaknesses can actually point us toward our perfectly strong Savior, Jesus Christ, who deserves all honor and glory.
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Resources
Books
The Good Gift of Weakness - Eric Schumacher
Handout
2025 Scripture Reading Challenge
Transcript:
Janet: Well, hello, welcome back. This is Janet here again with Jocelyn.
Jocelyn: Hey, friends.
Janet: And today I'd really like to share with you some things I'm learning about the topic of weakness.
Jocelyn: I'm really excited to learn this.
Janet: Even saying the word implies a negative to us.
It's something we all want to avoid. So, when I say weakness, what do you think, Jocelyn?
Jocelyn: 100% automatically, I think of failure.
Janet: Fascinating.
Jocelyn: Weakness is failure. As a reformed feminist, like, I am trained to be strong and brave and capable.
Janet: I am woman, hear me roar.
Jocelyn: There is no weakness in that. that is not the M. O. that I grew up thinking was necessary.
Janet: what's funny is I think just implicitly that's where we all go. We may not always use all those words and yet we could because we don't want it. It's a bad thing and we don't want it. So I've been thinking about this word for a couple years now and then recently read an article and then a great book on the subject and we'll link all of that in the transcript. But even before I was reading these resources, I was wrestling with it personally. I had said many times over the past few years that I was walking into a situation weak and dependent. And it was clearly of the Lord times when I was going to need to be, well, leading our BCTC track or heading into something that was bigger. In God's good providence, there were things that He allowed before that that I would walk in thinking, I don't have it. I just don't have it. So, there were a lot of those moments walking into a situation we're very very aware. I don't have the strength. I don't have what it takes right now to lead or to serve and yet I have to.
Jocelyn: Yeah, here we are.
Janet: Yeah, here we go.
Jocelyn: I feel that same thing happened after we got COVID whenever that was in 2021 or something. Ever since then, I've been really struggling with sickness stuff. And every time I have to speak somewhere, I get sick. And so I spend all the days leading up to the sickness, just praying, Jesus, let me stand up without passing out. Jesus, let me talk. Jesus, let my voice work. Like I do not like.
Weak and dependant.
I don't like being like that.
Janet: I know.
Jocelyn: And it's interesting. I've had all those times of praying my way through a speaking engagement, and then looking back on it and being like, this is amazing. God, you delivered so much. And all the previous speaking engagements, I just went and did my job because that's what I do. I prep and I speak. I didn't cry out to God to help me. I didn't beg for Him to make my voice work. I didn't beg for Him to let me stand up right. I just did my job. And I find that's what I prefer. Like I prefer to just be prepared.
Janet: Absolutely.
Jocelyn: And do my job.
Janet: Absolutely, yes. Cause here's what we know, weak and dependent. When I'm dependent on God, it's a good thing. But it doesn't feel good.
Jocelyn: It feels very terrifying.
Janet: It feels, it does not feel secure.
Jocelyn: No.
Janet: It does not feel safe.
Jocelyn: It feels shaky.
Janet: And so my thing, each of those situations, it was like, I see that God's using it to humble me, to help me learn to trust Him. So my goal is good, I've done that. I want it to be over so I can feel strong again. I want to be done. Yes and then pass the test. And then I get to feel strong again. And I knew that can't. Something's got to be wrong.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So I started doing more thinking, more reading. The book that I will be referencing throughout this and we'll have a link for it Eric Schumacher's book entitled, The Good Gift of Weakness. So one of the things I appreciated about it is he gave a definition for it.
Jocelyn: Don't you love that?
Janet: Yes, because I'm thinking okay, what do we mean by weakness? That could mean so many things and some of it is not good.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: You know, so his overall definition, which I don't know how you could disagree with okay, yeah, that's kind of what weakness is. He says it's the inability to act or produce an effect. So already I don't like it, right?
Jocelyn: Because you're unable to do the thing that you need to do.
Janet: Yeah. Or that you think you need to do. Yeah. In short, he says, a weak person is one who cannot do things or make things happen. And you're like.
Jocelyn: I feel like that's the summary of my life.
Janet: And we don't like it. You know.
Jocelyn: I hate it.
Janet: So just saying that, I think, and so I don't want to be weak. I don't want to be the one who can't do things.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: So I guess the question is, how should I think about that?
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So I'm not going to read through the whole book, but I do think it's important. He did differentiate between different types of weaknesses. And I think that's important.
Jocelyn: Okay.
Janet: He talked about natural weakness. Weakness is because we are created. We are created beings and so inherently we have some inabilities.
Jocelyn: Right. Because we're not the Creator.
Janet: That's right.
Jocelyn: We're the created.
Janet: By the fact that we are created, there are inherent weaknesses. That is not wrong or bad. Then he talked about his word was consequential weaknesses. Things that were either begun or made worse by the fall.
Jocelyn: Okay.
Janet: So, obviously moral weakness that's not just because I'm created, it's because I'm sinful.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: So my depravity, there are weaknesses in my character, even the fact that I get diseases.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: That's not sin on my part, but it's a result of the fall.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So consequential. It's a consequence of the fall.
Jocelyn: I get it. Yeah. That makes sense.
Janet: And then he talks about relative weaknesses, where you're stronger than me, so I'm weaker than you.
Jocelyn: Yeah. So compared to someone else.
Janet: Yeah. So in comparison to people, animals, he says, forces of nature, you know, there's category three or category five, one is weaker, whatever. So, , I'm not going to talk a lot about relative weaknesses. I'm not even going to talk much about consequential because I really think the part that was amazing to me to really try to think about were my natural weaknesses.
Jocelyn: I can't wait to hear about this.
Janet: So the weaknesses that are just because I'm created. So that's the one I'd like to think more deeply about and to think about the fact that not only is a natural weakness not sin. I think we could all agree with that. It's also good.
Jocelyn: Crazy. That's crazy to think about.
Janet: I have not viewed it that way.
Jocelyn: No, I haven't either.
Janet: So the consequential weaknesses, things that are a result of the fall, something I should want to avoid, even diseases, it might not be my fault, but who wants one? Like, I'm not supposed to go, yay, but what was most reorienting to me is to think about the fact that natural weaknesses are good.
Jocelyn: That blows my mind because I can agree that natural weaknesses are factual. But I would have, yeah, I would have never landed on good.
Janet: Yeah. Yeah. So in the book, what he does is trace humanity, basically, big picture, starting at creation and then he goes through the different, which I'm not going to go through all of them, obviously, but the different parts of Israel's history. And sees where is weakness. And frequently the problem of consequential weakness, but also the problem of trying not to be naturally weak.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Yeah.
Janet: And the impact. So that was fascinating.
Jocelyn: That would have a huge impact.
Janet: Yeah. So first, just think before sin, this was really helpful to me. Actually, at the beginning of creation and we won't do a lot with this on the podcast today. But if you think about all the connections, again, on the new earth. So both ends when there's no sin and suffering, when either it had never happened yet or it's gone, we're going to be naturally weak. We will still be weak and that was before sin and it will be after sin. That's good.
Jocelyn: That's amazing.
Janet: Yeah. So, think before sin, Adam and then Eve entirely dependent on God. He's the one who created the world they lived in. Adam and Eve had nothing to do with that. They didn't vote. They didn't give ideas to the design plans. God did it all and then He made that world and then He created them. He cared for them. He gave them their purpose. We don't know. We've said before. We've done podcast episodes on God tells us our purpose. We don't. But to think about the fact that the only reason we know a good purpose is because He told us He did that.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: We didn't even go, that's a great idea, God. Why don't we do it more like this? You know, He's the one who provided for them. And then actually He's the one who gave them each other. Schumacher says this, God designed the first human being with a deficiency, a weakness and then he goes on to say, weakness itself is not what the Lord declares not good. So in the beginning, He says, Adam needs help, but that wasn't the part that He said was not good. What He said was not good is he's alone. He didn't say the deficiency, that's not good, he's weak. It was, I created him with that weakness, but here's what's not good, he's alone.
Jocelyn: Which is interesting because anytime I think about needing help, it's not necessarily a good thing. And we fight against it. We fight against asking for help. We are embarrassed to offer help sometimes.
Janet: Because I don't want to make them feel bad.
Jocelyn: Right. And I don't want to be needy. I don't want someone to have to serve me, but it's interesting that needing help is not a bad thing.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: It just is.
Janet: But being alone is.
Jocelyn: Yeah, that's so interesting.
Janet: I know. And I thought, wow. Okay. Okay. And so, Adam, thinking about it, Adam was created by God with that weakness and everything was very good. That was the plan. That wasn't a result of the fall. And God says, then I'm going to create. What is bad is that he's alone. So I will create the helper for him. So, it's good that man and woman are mutually dependent, and it's a reminder of our weakness and dependence, and everything in our flesh screams against that.
Jocelyn: Yeah, totally.
Janet: I want to know that I love my husband and I want to help him, but I don't need him. And there's a degree of truth to that.
Jocelyn: Right. I need the Lord.
Janet: Exactly. But I do need the Lord, and the Lord gives me people.
Jocelyn: Right. And apparently. Being in need of help is not bad.
Janet: No, pre-fall, there's not even anything scary about it. There is a lot scary about it now because there's consequential weakness. So I can't always trust that when I'm vulnerable with you, what if you sinfully use that against me?
Jocelyn: I could. Right.
Janet: So I get that there are differences, but that's why I'm like, look at it before the fall. Before the fall, God provided the woman to help. Adam couldn't do it on his own, and all of that was good.
Jocelyn: That's really cool.
Janet: Schumacher says this, if we weren't weak, we wouldn't need God. We would rival Him.
Jocelyn: Whoa.
Janet: And I'm like, right, that would not be good.
Jocelyn: No.
Janet: So God did not create us with the ability to rival Him.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Because that would not be good. He created us with weaknesses that caused us to need Him and in many ways to, I say need each other in a sin cursed world that's a risk, but He does use each other. And that was the design.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: So before the fall, Adam and Eve were weak, and they were vulnerable and exposed. And they were safe.
Jocelyn: See, that's the difference.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And they flourished.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: I love that. In their weakness, they were abiding close to God, living in His strength, and they had then His strength to do what He commanded them to do.
Jocelyn: So cool.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: So cool.
Janet: After the fall, they are still weak. They are still vulnerable. But now they're also vulnerable to harm from each other, harm from their environment and they believe harm from God. They feel very unsafe.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And fascinating from the beginning. What do we try to do? Not be weak. This is instead of learning there's a safe place to be weak.
Jocelyn: Yes, exactly. So it doesn't change the fact that we are weak. We were weak before and after the fall.
Janet: Yes. So the problem is not the weakness. We think it is. The problem is the sin. So just in reading this, Schumacher just gave me a better understanding of even how the fall happened. Listen to some of what he wrote. Fascinating. If you think about this and apply it to Eve and the fall. Humans aren't able to decide for themselves what is good or evil, nor do we have the ability to determine how to live as a result of such judgments. I don't believe most of us believe what I just read. I believe it's true, but we think, yeah, but I need to understand it. Explain it in a way I understand, and then I will figure out how to live. He says, we were designed to image forth wisdom that originates in God alone. And then he said, in our hands, it explodes into a mess. Grasping for moral autonomy is nothing short of attempting to usurp God.
Jocelyn: That's interesting. I really love to think about that concept of like, God writes the definitions of what is right and good. That's what righteousness is. It's our job to bear that image.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: But it's interesting to hear it explained that way. Like our job is to image forth without thinking about whether we agree with it or not.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: It's to do it. It's to live it.
Janet: Because we don't have the ability, you know, it's one thing, because I've always, I mean, we know scripture is clear, follow me and not your own heart, but the humility of realizing I don't even know how to judge. I don't have the ability. I don't like to think that what I like to think is, I know, but mine's limited, so I need to follow His. But like.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: What he's saying is you don't even have the ability.
Jocelyn: We're so creaturely. We don't even have that, that capacity.
Janet: That's what Eve's first sin was.
Jocelyn: Right. That's exactly.
Janet: I decided.
Jocelyn: I want to think through things myself.
Janet: And here's what makes sense to me.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: I think even though God said it wouldn't be good, I think it would be good.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And she only did it because she thought it'd be good. And I'm like, wow, the first sin was a rejection of her weakness.
Jocelyn: That's true. Interesting.
Janet: Yeah. Fascinating. He quotes this other man, Victor Hamilton, in a book he wrote, and he says this, what is forbidden to man is the power to decide for himself what is in his best interest and what's not.
Jocelyn: That is so cool.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: I teach, that in counseling all the time, like, righteousness is what is best for us.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: We don't have to think about it. We don't have to decide if we agree with it. Righteousness, what God said is right and good from the beginning is what is best for us. But I've never connected this to weakness before.
Janet: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it's so easy for us to do. We think we're living out godly values, but we're being wise in our own eyes.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: You know, I think about this even in parenting, we've been having this conversation frequently with a variety of different people. It seems godly to make at least one of my parenting goals that my children do right.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Right.
Janet: That seems godly.
Jocelyn: It does seem godly.
Janet: And in my mind.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: That, but that's wise in my own eyes. God says, you image My values. You do not make your kids do the right.
Jocelyn: Turn out right. Yeah.
Janet: And even obey.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: I cannot make my children obey.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: I can have consequences.
Jocelyn: If you try.
Janet: Show Jesus's values.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: I cannot make my children obey.
Jocelyn: And if you try to, it's going to be parenting through manipulation.
Janet: And anger.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And force.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And bullying. I will.
Jocelyn: You're making it happen. They're not reliant on the Lord to do what's right.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: But I think that's godly values.
Jocelyn: And it is a good goal. The Bible says, bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Like the goal is to bring them up. So it's a good goal to parent your children well, but the way that you parent your children well is to bear God's image to your children.
Janet: It's not to make them obey. And I think, okay, that's just one little example. What is it I think it's godly, but it's really wise in my own eyes, you know, and that's exactly what Adam and Eve did.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: They knew better than God and because they decided for themselves what God said was good was not good. And there was something better. They disobeyed. The essence of pride.
Jocelyn: Yeah and idolatry.
Janet: Yes and God resists the proud. And to think about pride, those who are proud refuse to acknowledge their weakness and instead believe they know. I'm really convicted by that because I think I know the scriptures. I know what's best. Why can't everybody in the world just do what I know is right and best and there'd be no problems anywhere, right? Because we think we know. And I think, okay, can I acknowledge my weakness? They believed they knew what was right and trusted themselves more than God. So I have to submit to God's ways even when I don't understand and when I do, it is humility. But another way of saying that, it's a recognition that I recognize my weakness and that I was created by Him and He knows what's right and wrong, I don't. So that is the humility, is a recognition of that. We're created to image Him, not ourselves. So we can't make decisions based on what makes sense, what we think will lead to the outcome that we believe is best.
Jocelyn: Which is what I think probably 95% of our time is done, like thinking through how to get the outcome that we think is best.
Janet: Yes. Even when I believe that outcome is righteous.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: Because I think we all know I shouldn't look for the outcome that cheats everybody else and I can steal money.
Jocelyn: Of course.
Janet: But I might be conniving and scheming
Jocelyn: and manipulating.
Janet: For righteousness sake, as if.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So I have to not only say, I want what God wants. I want righteousness. I must follow His way of getting there. And I have to know that's always best, no matter what. So Schumacher says it this way, choosing to live outside God's strength, they became weak and unsafe. So they were already weak naturally, but they were strong because they were abiding in the Lord's strength. We're weak no matter what. I'm either living in the Lord's strength, or I'm rejecting it, telling myself I'm strong, and now I'm really living in a weakness.
Jocelyn: Now you really are unsafe.
Janet: And weak.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Yes. So, our natural weakness then, when we acknowledge it, is what strengthens us.
Jocelyn: That blows my mind.
Janet: Because it draws us to God, where we learn true wisdom, where we learn what is really right and just and how to live, and where He promises and we receive His strength
Jocelyn: It's like one more evidence of the upside down kingdom.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: It just doesn't work the way that you think it should work.
Janet: Exactly. as I was reading this book and then looking at scripture, I'm like, you know, so many scriptures that talk about be strong. it's always in the Lord. that to me is just a prepositional phrase we say at the end. I remember be strong, but the real point is be in the Lord and then you'll be strong because it's His strength, not look how strong you are because you're a mature believer. Look at your strength. It's like no mature believer knows they don't have any and that's good. So, but it's our consequential weakness, my sin. That is moral weakness that that hinders me, but that's what's giving me the delusion of my strength.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: In myself. Yeah, and that's keeping me from God and therefore it's keeping me weak. Which is, I don't know fascinating to me as I read through it. So he then goes through I'm not gonna do all of it, obviously, but I just think it was really helpful to me. Obviously, I would commend the book to you.
Jocelyn: I know I'm struggling right now because I want to just put it in my Amazon cart and I just went through all the bookcases in my house and got rid of a bunch of books.
Janet: See if you can find it on Hoopla. Just read it. But I will be going back to this one. So this one I'm, glad I have.
Jocelyn: This one's a keeper.
Janet: Yes, this one is for me I love it. But he does an overview of the Bible and he shows the pattern of God working through weakness.
Jocelyn: Okay.
Janet: I mean if you think about it the whole nation of Israel started from a couple who were 90 and 100 years old and infertile.
Jocelyn: Can't get much more weak than that.
Janet: I know talk about obvious weakness.
Jocelyn: And it's like God keeps on choosing situations like that where it's clear that the only way it worked was because of God.
Janet: It's almost like that's the plan.
Jocelyn: That's the point. He chooses a bunch of losers who can't do it to emphasize His majesty.
Janet: And then we want to counteract that by showing we're strong.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: oh, we're not getting it. And think about many of the problems with Sarah and Abraham, many of the problems that arose were from them trying to find ways not to be weak.
Jocelyn: That's true. That's true.
Janet: God tells Abram, hey, I'm going to make you a great nation. Abram and Sarah, they cannot figure out how that's going to happen. And they did wait years. I got to give them credit.
Jocelyn: They did wait like 10 years, didn't they? 13 years?
Janet: A long time.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So it didn't happen. Okay. They're going to use their strength, their wisdom, wise in their eyes. They're going to scheme and make another plan. You know what? I bet God wanted us to use our intellect, figure out a way. And Sarah said.
Jocelyn: Instead of just listen to Him.
Janet: Yeah. So Sarah says, use my servant and Abram has a child and there's been conflict ever since.
Jocelyn: We're living it.
Janet: Yes. And it started at least in part from two weak people, not depending on God in their weakness, but scheming to overcome their weakness their way because they couldn't see a way that God was going to be able to do it without them doing that.
Jocelyn: Which I think is so much a part of God's plan is like He is the person who makes the way when there is no way.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: And so it's in His best interest to use weak people to do His job to do His work. It doesn't distract from who gets the glory, right? Because His job is to glorify Himself and that does it.
Janet: Yes. Yes. And how uncomfortable that is for us when we sometimes feel like we have to help God.
Jocelyn: So uncomfortable.
Janet: Well, since He says in His word this, maybe I need to blah, blah, blah. And if it's not His way, that's just wrong. But I want to help Him or, you know, we're in situations where Brent and I've said more than once, I just don't see a way. Like sometimes I see a way and I know it's hard, but it's what God says, I know what I need to do and I can see a way forward. What happens when you can't see a way? Does that limit God?
Jocelyn: No.
Janet: No, it's my weakness but it's uncomfortable, you know, and how about their son Isaac? So he marries at 40 and when he's 60, he still had no kids. His wife is barren.
Jocelyn: For decades.
Janet: 20 years.
Jocelyn: And I think that's the uncomfortableness of this is like Abraham barren for decades. Isaac decades.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: It wasn't like they waited three weeks and then God, you know worked it out. It was like lots of years of it not working the way they thought it was going to.
Janet: And I just was reading this in my Bible today and I was like I haven't really thought about it before but I think it's because I've been reading all this stuff about weakness in my own and reading about this. Now I'm reading about Isaac and the son that Abram had by the servant, Ishmael. it's giving their descendants. And I thought, wow, for 20 years, Isaac is married and infertile and Ishmael has 12 sons.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: What's Isaac thinking? You know what I'm saying? Like, wow.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: Because it goes through Ishmael's and then Isaac.
Jocelyn: I never thought about that before.
Janet: What would that, how weak.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Isaac can't even have a kid and he's supposed to be the father of all the nations.
Jocelyn: And the wrong son is flourishing.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: I've never thought about that.
Janet: And what would that have done? But what did it accentuate? It's not Isaac.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Wow.
Janet: It's God. So Isaac and Rebecca have two kids. Jacob, the father of the nation is born then out of that infertility and he's the weaker brother. Again, I'm reading this part of scripture right now and it's like, think about that. If you knew nothing. And you saw their two children. What you would see is one is strong, manly, strong, booming voice, is a hunter. And the other one is slight of build, hangs out in the kitchen, has flour on his apron. Who would you pick?
Jocelyn: To lead your nation?
Janet: Right. To be the warrior.
Jocelyn: To create the nation.
Janet: The patriarch.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And to think God chose the baker and not the hunter.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: That's fascinating.
Jocelyn: Yes, it is.
Janet: He was the promised heir.
Jocelyn: It's also making me think of David, which I don't know if we're going to get to, but like, King David was the youngest and smallest.
Janet: They didn't even bring him in.
Jocelyn: They didn't even, I mean, look at him because his big adult brothers were like the stars of the show.
Janet: And God picks the youngest there. I mean, you just, you'll start seeing it. It's all over scripture. And even though God told Jacob's mom, who I'm sure told Jacob, it's going to come through Jacob, the younger one, which is unbelievable because All of it should go to the older, but he tells them that, but again, instead of trusting God, Jacob and his mom scheme and steal the birthright. God works through it all, but again, are fighting the weakness because he was weaker. He was weaker in position. I'm the younger brother. How am I going to get what God says I'm going to get? Oh, God was going to take care of it, but he was going to have to trust and depend in his weakness. And instead he schemed. It's what we do. Later, the nation of Israel is enslaved in Egypt. They had a lot of people. They were very, very weak. They had no power. Very weak. They could not save themselves.
Jocelyn: All they could do is cry out for salvation.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: And God heard them.
Janet: And he sent a deliverer, Moses. And what do we know about Moses?
Jocelyn: He couldn't talk.
Janet: He was weak in speech and care and character. Because here's what he says, God, don't use me, please. And you think, can I know.
Jocelyn: God's like, I'm even more determined.
Janet: Yes, exactly. Exactly. That was their deliverer is the one going, I don't even know how to talk right.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And then when God gave him answers to every one of his concerns, he finally just says, could you just not, I just don't want to. What are we seeing in the pattern?
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: God works through weakness.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Schumacher says this. I love this quote. A God who depends on the strength of His creatures is a weak God.
Jocelyn: That's really interesting.
Janet: Because we want to show God, I want you to be proud of me. See how strong I am?
Jocelyn: Look how strong I am.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: Are you happy?
Janet: I know.
Jocelyn: Are you pleased?
Janet: Yes. He's like I don't need that. Are you kidding me? I've got all the strength. I need you to weakly depend on me. I don't need you to try to be strong. So interesting. And then I was thinking about Joshua because, you know, that's a book where I think God tells him, be courageous, be strong, be courageous. He's reminded that over and over and over. And then he says, where would that strength come from? Joshua 1:5, God says, I will be with you just as I was with Moses the other weak leader. I will not leave you or abandon you.
Jocelyn: And I think when we get afraid, that is what we're afraid of, is that we will be left alone. We will have to handle it on our own.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: And God says over and over in scripture regularly, He is never going to leave us. He will never forsake us.
Janet: But what I prefer when I'm afraid is to find I have enough strength that even if I don't need it, because it feels vulnerable, which is my lack of trust, my lack of faith. It doesn't feel safe to know if God doesn't come through, I will die. But that's the safest place to be. He's going to come through, but because it doesn't feel safe, I have to try to find a way to not be weak. And that's what we see over and over. And God tells him, be strong by meditating on God's word and living it out. He doesn't tell him be strong because you're the best warrior ever. And you've got all the conniving, you've got all the scheming, you've got all the cunning. He says, here's where your strength comes from know my word, follow it, and I'm with you.
Jocelyn: And that's interesting. It makes me think of the walls of Jericho. Like it didn't make sense that it would work the way that it did. All they did was obey God and it totally worked the way that God said it would.
Janet: Yes. Yes, and then I had not even really thought through, you know, I knew that God asked His kings to live differently. To think through that, that was really saying in every area, choose weakness.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: Because He told the kings, He forbade them from acquiring many horses, many wives, and very large amounts of silver and gold. That's in Deuteronomy.
Jocelyn: Right. That's why the censuses were forbidden. Like those were for taxation, for greatness of the kingdom.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: And not to have too many horses.
Janet: So he's told, don't have horses, don't have military strength, don't have very many wives. And we go, well, of course not. But that was also how that was, yeah, that intermarriage, that's what's going to politically help me be strong and don't have economic strength, don't have lots of money.
Jocelyn: Which is like what?
Janet: Yeah. So, they were going to be utterly unlike any other king. And here's what Schumacher says, the distinction is the gift of weakness as the Lord forbade the pursuit of worldly strength.
Jocelyn: Think about Solomon, like he had 700, whatever number of wives and many of them were alliances.
Janet: Yes,
Jocelyn: Most of them.
Janet: Probably most.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Most of them were alliances. And crazy.
Janet: And then he was weak.
Jocelyn: Yeah. He was very weakened.
Janet: Yep. So we see all throughout Israel's history, true strength comes from confessing our weakness and abiding close to God. But we don't like it.
Jocelyn: It's tough.
Janet: It is. And God even embedded it in the rhythm of their nation.
Jocelyn: True. Yeah.
Janet: He commanded a Sabbath year of rest. And when I hear about that, my first thought is, that's amazing, but you know what?
Jocelyn: That'd be hard. We had sometimes vegetables that volunteer in our garden, like seeds fall into the ground and they grow up the next year. And I'm always like, oh look, a bonus tomato, like one bonus tomato. How do you live on a Sabbath year? Like God apparently would have miraculously provided.
Janet: Which looking back, I'm sure was amazing.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: But the year of, you have a year of not producing and you're told not to save and don't prepare for the future.
Jocelyn: That's more than one year to be honest.
Janet: Right. The impact.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: So it's one year of Sabbath and the impact is even greater. his quote on that really impacted me. He says this, if they trusted in their strength, the Sabbath year would be a terror, but if they trusted in the Lord's promise, the Sabbath rest would be a delight. That's so true.
Jocelyn: That's big trust.
Janet: Do I spend the year going, Oh my word, are we going to have enough? Are we going to have enough? What about tomorrow? Are we going to have enough? I know he says that next year will be okay when I plant again, but I'm not going to have, am I worrying or am I going, what a delight that I don't have, I get to rest.
Jocelyn: And think about how the year of Jubilee fits into this. Like this, there was the years of Sabbath, but then there was also the year of Jubilee, which was every 50 years.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: So it was even an extra measure of trust.
Janet: Yeah. Because as I read that quote, I thought, okay, what do I know? I know I am weak and dependent. I know that. God has made that abundantly clear to me in the last several years, but more often than not, I find that scary. It's a terror, as he says. I don't find it delightful. I say that I trust God's promises, but I must trust in my own strength more than I realize until it's clearly not enough.
Jocelyn: You fall apart.
Janet: I don't see a way out. I can't trust in it. I can't even go, this will be hard, but I know what to do. I don't know. Like I got nothing.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And then I realize just doing the next right thing and trusting God is scary.
It is.
But it wouldn't be if my faith were perfected, but I'm in process. So it's scary.
Jocelyn: It's interesting.
Something happened to me earlier this year that I was like, wow, it's so crazy. My life is really full and I'm just doing the next right thing and I don't feel overwhelmed at all. And then I started deciding to think about all the things that were happening and I was overwhelmed all the time. Like when I wasn't worrying about it and just handling it.
Janet: You had enough, because God was taking care of you.
Jocelyn: I was like, wow, I didn't even know that I should be worrying about this and look at this disaster just happened and God took care of it.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: And then when I started worrying, like, what if I'm not taken care of? I was a mess.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: I'm falling apart mess.
Janet: Yep. Which that's one of the many reasons we have to be saturating our mind with scripture. Our fallen mind thinks that it's vulnerable and scary to be dependent. And on other people, there is vulnerability, but with God, it's not, it's a hundred percent risk free.
Jocelyn: But it's interesting though, because even though like it's saying be dependent on God, he actually is also telling us to be dependent on other humans. Like that's part of the goodness of it. like we're not meant to be alone. We're not meant to be lonely and isolated. Which is kind of like, I'm reorienting my brain about that. Like, it's, why do I feel so bad when I ask someone to help me? You know, like, why do I feel so bad?
Janet: I should be able to handle it. No, I shouldn't.
Jocelyn: Me and God, it's all I need. But really like it's God and other people.
Janet: That's right. you know, I think the clarification is if I am really depending on God, then I can depend on other people even though it's a risk.
Jocelyn: Even if they do fail.
Janet: Because they may fail.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: And I'll still be okay.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: Before the fall, it wasn't an issue.
Janet: Now it is. But we're still supposed to do that. It's just, I can trust God.
Jocelyn: And it's not a bad thing.
Janet: Even in that.
Jocelyn: Yeah. It's not a bad thing.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: I feel like I have a need to be careful about my mouth because every time I almost say weak, I'm like, wait a second, that doesn't mean what it used to mean in my head.
Janet: You may be consequentially weak. That is the same. That's the bad. Yeah. Well, let me just read some verses reminding us that the safest, most sure place we can be is God's strength our weakness. I'm just going to read a variety of verses here. I think these are all different Psalms that I was looking at, I'm not going to even read all the references.
Jocelyn: Okay, just these are the words of the Lord.
Janet: Yes. I love you, Lord, my strength. Lord, the king finds joy in your strength. My strength come quickly to help me. The Lord is my strength and my shield. The Lord is the strength of His people. The course of my life is in Your power. I will keep watch for You, my strength. To You, my strength, I sing praises. God is the strength of my heart, my portion forever. Happy are the people whose strength is in You. You are their magnificent strength. My hand will always be with him. My arm will strengthen him. The Lord is my strength and my song. He has become my salvation. And there's so many more.
Jocelyn: That's amazing. That's so cool to hear it straight from God's word.
Janet: Yeah. But it wouldn't be if my faith were perfected, but I'm in process. So it's scary.
Jocelyn: It's interesting. Something happened to me earlier this year that I was like, wow, it's so crazy. My life is really full and I'm just doing the next right thing and I don't feel overwhelmed at all. And then I started deciding to think about all the things that were happening and I was overwhelmed all the time. Like when I wasn't worrying about it and just handling it.
Janet: You had enough.
because God was taking care of you
Jocelyn: I was like, wow, I didn't even know that I should be worrying about this and look at this disaster just happened and God took care of it.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: And then when I started worrying, like, what if I'm not taken care of? I was a mess.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: I'm falling apart. Mess.
Janet: Yep. Which that's one of the many reasons we have to be saturating our mind with scripture. Our fallen mind thinks that it's vulnerable and scary to be dependent. And on other people, there is vulnerability, but with God, it's not, it's a hundred percent risk free.
Jocelyn: But it's interesting though, because even though like it's saying be dependent on God, he actually is also telling us to be dependent on other humans. Like that's part of the goodness of it. We're not meant to be alone. We're not meant to be lonely and isolated, which is kind of like, I'm reorienting my brain about that. Like, it's, why do I feel so bad when I ask someone to help me? You know, like, why do I feel so bad?
Janet: I should be able to handle it. No, I shouldn't.
Jocelyn: Me and God, it's all I need. But really like it's God and other people.
Janet: That's right. And you know, I think the clarification is if I am really depending on God, then I can depend on other people even though it's a risk.
Jocelyn: Even if they do fail.
Janet: Because they may fail.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: And I'll still be okay.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: Before the fall, it wasn't an issue.
Now it is. But we're still supposed to do that. It's just, I can trust God.
Jocelyn: And it's not a bad thing.
Janet: Even in that.
Jocelyn: Yeah. It's not a bad thing.
Janet: Yeah. Yeah. So,
Jocelyn: I feel like I have a need to be careful about my mouth because every time I almost say weak, I'm like, wait a second, that doesn't mean what it used to mean in my head.
Janet: You may be consequentially weak. That is the same. That's the bad. Yeah. Well, let me just read some verses reminding us that the safest, most sure place we can be is God's strength our weakness. I'm just going to read a variety of verses here, they all come, I think these are all different Psalms that I was looking at because I'm not going to even read all the references.
Jocelyn: Okay, just these are the words of the Lord.
Janet: Yes. I love you, Lord, my strength. Lord, the king finds joy in your strength. My strength come quickly to help me. The Lord is my strength and my shield. The Lord is the strength of His people. The course of my life is in Your power. I will keep watch for You, my strength. To You, my strength, I sing praises. God is the strength of my heart, my portion forever. Happy are the people whose strength is in You. You are their magnificent strength. My hand will always be with him. My arm will strengthen him. The Lord is my strength and my song. He has become my salvation. And there's so many more.
Jocelyn: That's amazing. That's so cool to hear it straight from God's word.
Janet: Yeah. And I just think we've got to saturate in that. And just because I've been reading about and thinking about this for a long time now, I just see it all throughout scripture. I used to see be strong..
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: That's not what I see.
Jocelyn: Yeah. I'm just thinking, I'm so thankful that we're having this conversation right on this day right now, because I have a big assignment this week that I do not know how I'm going to do. And this is reframing it in my mind. Like, yes, it's. This is really great timing. Praise the
Janet: Lord.
Praise the Lord .
Jocelyn: Right. Yeah.
Janet: Yeah. So the other thing I would say, first, we have to begin to agree with God that it's good. It's good to know that I don't have strength. He does. And let me clarify, even unbelievers have an ability, a level of strength. So here's my take on that. I'm not going to pass a theology exam on it. This is just my practical way of thinking about it. We know all we have is from God.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: Right. He created us. He gave us our birth. He did everything.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: And even with unbelievers, I believe in differing degrees, He has given amounts of strength to people.
Jocelyn: Yes, common grace.
Janet: In His common grace. So I can have a measure of strength without leaning on God. But that strength even came from God.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: But I can't. So, I don't want to say, I have nothing without God. Well, I have nothing without God, but I can, even in my flesh, lean on the strength He gave me and claim it as mine, which is wrong. But I can. But God graciously continues to put us in situations where the initial strength He gave us is not going to be enough. We have to lean on Him.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: And we fight it. We wanna try to increase the strength He gave us initially and make it ours and not, lean on Him.
Jocelyn: And help me to have what I need before I start so that I know that I'm gonna be okay.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Instead of being like, okay, I'm gonna take this next step, also, depending on You. Now, the next breath, also depending on You.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: And I'm about to say a sentence that I will need your help with.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Like I don't like being that dependent.
Janet: And to know it's understandable because we're in a world where that's not safe.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And so I have to learn my mind, it is with Him.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: and so it's understandable that we don't really have a concept of that naturally. And so we have to learn through scripture and through the, like what I just read and meditating on that. Okay, there is a safe place for that.
Jocelyn: And I don't know if you're going to talk about this eventually, but it's making me wonder, sometimes people do die even while they're depending on God.
Janet: Absolutely.
Jocelyn: And so, like, safety doesn't mean lack of death.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: It means the presence of God.
Janet: That's right.
Jocelyn: So I don't know if you'll talk about that, but that's one of the applications that I'm, thinking about is like, well, I'm totally safe, but also not physically always safe.
Janet: For sure. Yeah.
Jocelyn: I could pass out. I could not be able to speak. I might die.
Janet: And we're all going to.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Either Jesus will come back or we're all going to die. And that's not, that doesn't mean I'm not safe. I was just at a funeral today. We were all in agreement because this woman loved God, she's better than she's ever been.
Jocelyn: Yeah. She's safe.
Janet: so for sure. We can't even grow in any kind of wisdom until we confess our inability And look to God.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: Proverbs talks a lot about the fear of the Lord being the beginning of wisdom, and understanding this from the concept of weakness helped me understand that. You know, I have to see my weakness and that I need the Lord and orient around Him, or I can't in any way have biblical wisdom.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: You know, he talks about in the book, I don't have a quote for it, but he talks about in the book that, you know, an unbeliever can read the book of Proverbs and learn principles.
Jocelyn: Right. Yeah.
Janet: But that doesn't give true wisdom. And some of the principles will work because they're God's, but it doesn't give him wisdom.
Jocelyn: That reminds me of a marriage communication class I had when I was at Purdue studying my undergraduate. And I taught the four rules of communication, but I did not cite them from the scripture. And everyone was just going crazy. These are so great. We should implement this into our relationships. And I was like, but it had zero power. Like you're just slapping on rules to make your relationship be less problematic. Like the power for the rules of communication comes from the relationship that you have with the Lord underlying them where you're relying on Him to do those things.
Janet: But the principles are still true because God made us and says they are. I did the same thing at Purdue. I taught supervisors and I taught those and somebody there that was one of my authorities said to me, you know, I don't know how you got your, I was young and I don't know how you got so wise at a young age. I just looked at her and said, well, this is what's in our sermon Sunday. This is what I heard Sunday. Thought I'd share with you guys. And so I told her, I said, it comes out of the Bible. Very, very sadly, there was a name of a company that does PR for them. And she said, truly, this was her knowledge. I said, it's actually just from the Bible and I heard it Sunday at church. And she goes, do you think they got it from this company?
Jocelyn: Oh. Oh my goodness.
Janet: I was like, I think they got it from Jesus. I think the Bible was before this company. But.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: There is such wisdom there.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And God's way is right. And then I taught this to one supervisor, who was in a very difficult, I actually, the name of the session I taught was positive responses to negative situations. And all that and being wise. And so I taught Biblical principles without the Bible for two hours on this subject. And I believe everything I said. . He, the supervisor came up to me afterwards and he goes, I hear what you're saying. I'm just really struggling. Like how do you just keep doing that? And I thought.
Jocelyn: that's the point that brings people to the Lord.
Janet: I know.
Jocelyn: It's the same thing as expecting your children to obey.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: You cannot obey unless Jesus is helping you.
Janet: I looked at him and I thought, well, here I am at Purdue and I don't know what I'm supposed to say right now, but to say anything other than what was on my mind, but I didn't, my conscience wouldn't let me. So I looked at him and I said, I can only do it by the grace of God. I have no idea how you'll ever do what I just said.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: 20 years later, he came and found me at church. He had started coming to church. His wife had been praying for him and he came to Christ.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: It was so cool.
Jocelyn: That's so cool.
Janet: And he said, do you remember that? I was like.
Jocelyn: I do.
Janet: I was talking to my wife while she'd been praying for him. And then I said that, and that was just part of one of many things.
Jocelyn: One of the things that brought him to that place.
Janet: So I know it wasn't me, but to think exactly what you said.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: These are beautiful principles, and you can't do that, and I know I taught them to you, and I believe in them, and you cannot do them, and I'm not even going to tell you just try harder.
Jocelyn: Yeah
Janet: I got nothing for you.
Jocelyn: Yeah, but I think that's, what brings all of us to salvific faith is.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: We need to do something that we're incapable of doing.
Janet: Yes. So Schumacher puts it this way, we have no inherent wisdom, and I do believe we fight that.
Jocelyn: Yeah, I do fight that.
Janet: Thus to be wise.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: We must confess our weakness and go to the Lord for instruction. We must renounce our interpretation of the world and live by faith in what God has revealed. I fight that because I think I'm wise. And some things I have grown in wisdom because I've grown to understand God's word better.
Jocelyn: I would say we are wise though because we have taken the Lord's word and believed it and applied it.
Janet: And that is wise.
Jocelyn: That's wise.
Janet: But when I then go beyond that.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Yeah.
Janet: And I do, I was really convicted by that because what makes sense to me, even if the outcome is something that I believe would be honoring to the Lord. If it's not God's way, it will lead to destruction. And fearing the Lord gives us wisdom to turn from evil. You know, so I think about one of our memory verses that we had last year. Proverbs 3, do not lean on your own understanding. And I think that's so easy to do. He says it this way. Wisdom often looks weak. Hoarding wealth seems to be the path of strength, a sure protection against poverty and yet wisdom knows, and when I read Proverbs 11: 24-26, it talks about being generous and giving it all away.
Jocelyn: I know. I was actually just thinking about that very principle as you were reading that, like, what would Jesus say about our retirement planning? I don't know that He would love it.
Janet: He does say that the ants plan for the winter.
Jocelyn: He does say to plan, but he also says to give generously.
Janet: So it's like, so it's balanced. He doesn't say, give away everything you have and hope God gives you rent money. He does. He does say to plan. He does say the ant prepares, and He does say that a godly father leaves an inheritance for his children. Which means all those things are planned. Yes, all those things are true. He doesn't hoard He doesn't say I have to make sure I have enough if I never worked again like I have to know. He says the way to really increase is giveaway. And it's like well, who am I going to go with? God's ways are different from ours, and I have to acknowledge my inability to see without His help. I have to be able to say, the fact that that doesn't make sense to me is evidence of my inability to see. So I'm going to have to go to the Lord. And Solomon, who was wise, God gave him wisdom. He flourished until he started trusting his own wisdom.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And went against the word of God, had all those wives we talked about. He did a lot of the things that kings weren't supposed to do, so God told him how to live. At the point that he started veering from that, the nation went down. But it didn't seem like it would. I think that one of the things that just was so sweet to me in thinking about weakness is Jesus. He chose human weakness. And he showed us how to live rightly within weakness. He had finite human strength. He had physical weakness. He had limited human knowledge. And I know He was God, but I also know that the Bible says He was fully human. And the Bible says He increased in wisdom.
Jocelyn: I know.
Janet: It's weird to me.
Jocelyn: One of the weirdest verses.
Janet: But I think.
Jocelyn: How does that happen?
Janet: Humanly, He had to increase in wisdom. Just like us. He had that weakness of not having it all up front. I had never thought about this, but He depended on the Father and the Spirit. He had to live by faith. I know He was God. I know it blows my mind, but He prayed all the time and asked for the Father's help. So He was leaning on the Father for help. He depended on the Spirit to strengthen Him. The Spirit came down. He lived by faith in His weaknesses, but He did it perfectly and He did it with a perfect trust. I don't think there was a fearful, please God, please God, I don't know what I'm going to do if you don't. He knew He would. He knew His Father was going to take care of Him, but He also knew He was dependent. And I look at that and go.
Jocelyn: What a juxtaposition.
Janet: Wow. Yeah. So when I read in Hebrews 2:18 that Jesus was tempted like us and therefore can help us when we're tempted, that truth took on more depth when I thought about all the ways He became weak, like us. He really does know what it's like to be weak. He knows what it's like to need to depend entirely on the Father. He knows what it's like to be tempted to look to other things.
Jocelyn: Which is so helpful to know.
Janet: And to think what we'll never face. He knows what it's like to be weak, to cry out to the Father and not be heard on the cross when the Father turned His face away.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And He knows that we feel that sometimes, but that's not true. So He even understands that feeling because He actually experienced that.
Jocelyn: Yeah. The thing that we will never experience.
Janet: But that we feel like we experienced, He actually did. That's amazing. And then I love because another thing that's hard for us. Jesus was weak where others could see, you know, many times He left to go pray and be with His Father. And then how can you not think about Gethsemane?
Jocelyn: Right. That's what I was thinking about.
Janet: Yes. He cries out, devastated, sweating blood and saying, please, God, could you let this pass? And He said to them, could you come and watch with me? He didn't try to hide that. He was vulnerable and allowing others to see that weakness and that weakness was not sin. Some of mine is. His weakness was not sin. He called out to His Father in His weakness, and He did it where others would see his weakness. 2 Corinthians 13:4 says He was crucified in weakness, but He lives not even by His own power. Which I know He's God, but He lives by the power of God as we do.
Jocelyn: That makes me feel a little bit less guilty when I am like, I really don't want to do this. God, could you please make it stop?
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Like Jesus did that too and it was not sin.
Janet: Yes. Now it can quickly become sinning when I'm bitter, but it's not sin to say, but let your will be done.
Jocelyn: You don't want to do this.
Janet: I know.
Jocelyn: But I will, if you empower me, but like, just the saying, I don't want this.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: I was reading in Job and my devotions this morning and just struck by the fact that he said, I wish I had never been born. And like, I've always thought that's a sinful thought to have. Like he was just saying, like, I wish this wasn't happening.
Janet: Right. And God meets him there. Yes. And to know Jesus, you know, He didn't say that statement, but He did say, could we not do this?
Jocelyn: Could it not be this way?
Janet: Yes. you're absolutely right. And that was weakness, not sin.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: They're not the same. Now mine gets combined.
Jocelyn: Mine gets really switched quick.
Janet: Yes, but it's not the same.
Jocelyn: Not inherently sinful.
Janet: Schumacher says Jesus would endure His final hour, not through dulled senses. So He didn't take morphine, so He wouldn't feel the pain.
Jocelyn: Yeah. That's what I was just thinking. Like, wow, think about how many people medicate themselves to not feel the icky thing.
Janet: Yeah. But He did it, he says, through faith in God's promises to give the Messiah life after death. He did it by faith. He faced that by faith and we also endure through faith. Even when and because we always are weak, it's okay. So he says this faith means believing that Jesus was made as weak as I am so that in Him I might be as strong as He is.
Jocelyn: That's amazing.
Janet: Yes. But it's not my strength. It's His. a verse that has been special to me and my daughter. It's actually on the wall in my now office that used to be my daughter's bedroom, that my grace is sufficient for you. And my strength, your weakness, that whole thing about Paul's thorn in the flesh. And again, to your point, Jocelyn, Paul pleaded three times for it to be removed, and God didn't say, hey, that is sin, that is sin. No, he cried out, this is really hard, could you please take it away? And this is the quote from Schumacher that I just, I teared up reading it. But Jesus, who knows what it means to hear no in agonizing prayer, declined the request with this encouragement, my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is perfected in weakness. And just, I'd never put together, He knows what it's like to agonizingly sweating blood, beg God, could this please not happen? And to hear, no, I can't do what you're asking. So when we do that He understands and He does say though, my grace is sufficient and to think His power, His strength is perfected in my weakness is not hindered by my weakness.
Jocelyn: It's crazy.
Janet: What it is the display of it is hindered by my illusion of strength, but it's not by my weakness.
Jocelyn: Am I grasping at sin to make it be something different than it is?
Janet: Yeah. So how should that affect us? I'm going to read just because I know I've read more from this book because I just, I don't want to, these are his words not mine. I want to give him credit for them. Listen to how Schumacher said even this book affected him. He said, I leave this work a changed man. I find myself less confident in my own strength and more confident in the Lord's. I'm less tolerant of arrogance, pride and boasting, especially in myself.
Jocelyn: Absolutely.
Janet: And I loved, it didn't leave him afraid. He said, I'm taking more risks in ministry in obedience because I'm more convinced of Jesus's gracious willingness to be my strength in every weakness. So part of that means I've grown more confident in owning my shortcomings.
Jocelyn: Because it's not so shameful.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: It's not.
Janet: And the goal is.
Jocelyn: Not to be embarrassed of.
Janet: To not have them.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: So our weakness, His strength. And what that does, I think, it should for us realign where true strength really is. It's not a matter of saying, I want to be a weak, wimpy person. It's a matter of saying, I want true strength, which means embracing my weakness. It's believing that I'm strong in myself, that's what's keeping me weak.
Jocelyn: It's such deception.
Janet: It is. It is.
Jocelyn: To believe that I am strong at all.
Janet: And to think though that that's biblical it blinds me I think I'm doing what God wants when I'm strong for the Lord. I'm strong in the Lord.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And I want it to show for the Lord But it's the Lord not me because I love that it resulted in taking more risks. He's bolder. He's not passive and why? He says it's because he's more convinced of Jesus's gracious willingness to be his strength. I think that's the takeaway for me. And I'm still very much in process. What do I need to work on? Do I need to work on, I need to be weaker? I just already am weak. Do I need to work? No, I need to work on.
Jocelyn: Quit covering it up.
Janet: Being more convinced of Jesus's gracious willingness to be my strength 'cause the more convinced I am of that, the more I can embrace my weakness.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: And go, yay. All it does is remind me to run to where strength is.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: Am I convinced of this? My fear at being weak my fear of the unknown that I can't control all of that screams I'm not completely convinced yet of Jesus's willingness to be my strength.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: What if He didn't come through? And so I clamor, and I fret, and I worry. And honestly, for me personally, I get mad. When I'm afraid, I get angry.
Jocelyn: With me, I just made that connection myself. When I worry, I'm a jerk. That's how you know when I'm worrying because I'm snippy with people.
Janet: Yes. And Brent has learned that about me. There's a lot that's happened in the last few years. So especially this year, when I am like short with him, he will say, what's going on? And then as we talk, he's like, I thought when you fear, you get angry.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: So what are the fearful thoughts that are moving you here, which I'm so grateful that he doesn't just say, woman, shut up, which he could, but the reality is when I'm fearful because I feel weak, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't make anything happen. I can't do what I think is even right and good as far as a result.
Jocelyn: For me standing on the outside, looking into your life, I think what a gift, what a beautiful gift. It doesn't feel like a gift.
Janet: No, it doesn't. And it is.
Jocelyn: What a gift. What a gift for you to realize that you don't need to have the answers.
Janet: No. And it tells me I'm still in process. I need to grow in being convinced that that's okay. And not only okay, that that's good because I'm so convinced of exactly what he said. Jesus is gracious willingness to be my strength. Compare that then to Psalm 127:2. He says, in vain you get up early and stay up late working hard to have enough food. Yes, He gives sleep to the one He loves.
Jocelyn: It's like flies in the face of self sufficiency.
Janet: Yes, it's like I get up early, gotta work late, I gotta do all the things.
Jocelyn: Great work ethic.
Janet: And to think, okay, it is good to have a strong work ethic because God tells me to.
Jocelyn: Yes, because He teaches it in His words.
Janet: Yes, so I should. But that clamoring, I see that in that first part of the verse. I gotta do this, I gotta do this, I gotta do that.
Jocelyn: Because I provided for myself.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Because I got up and worked.
Janet: Instead, I can sleep because God doesn't. I can sleep because He's at work on my behalf, even then. And when I think about what is sleep. It represents my absolute weakest time. I am completely vulnerable. I can't do anything for myself while I'm asleep. And that's not scary because I'm depending on God. And I just think even in our Christian circles, I think we think we're supposed to emulate strong believers, those who we wish we were more like, I want to be as strong as this person. Did you see how this person stood up to the multitudes and stood for Jesus, even though they shot at him? Well, that may be true. Is it for that reason? So I'm trying to be strong. Am I looking to the right people? And if others are looking to me, what do I want them to see? How spiritual and strong I was?
Jocelyn: That's a good question.
Janet: Brent and I have talked about our legacy, you know, and I heard one of our pastors spoke last year on the fact that we shouldn't even think about a legacy. We're not even gonna be remembered. People are gonna move on with their lives. Nobody's gonna remember us.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: True, but I think, okay, if my children, my grandchildren, I do want to encourage their godliness. In that way, if I'm going to think about a legacy in that way, what do I want it to be? I get that. If we're remembered, how do we want to be remembered? More importantly, how would God want us to be remembered? And then I think about the book of Exodus. You know, Moses wrote that and he wrote, basically, I didn't want to do it. I asked God for a way out of it. I said, please, can somebody go with me? And God graciously gave him his brother to go with him. You know, condescending to him in that way.
Jocelyn: The fact that he wrote about his own weaknesses.
Janet: Yeah. So he wrote all of that. And then you see him move from, I don't want to do any of this, to saying to God, kill me and protect your people. Where did that come from? Getting to know God. So what is the legacy? Moses didn't even write us a book that would give us a legacy of, I just want to be like the amazing Moses. If I want to be like Moses, who took his weakness and went to the Lord, like I want that. And it showed the power of God. And that's what Moses wanted us to know. So what do we want our legacy to be? How many years we were in ministry? How many hats we wore. How amazingly faithful we were? And really before I read this book, we had discussed that and we had said, you know, we want our kids and grandkids not to, they were the whatevers. They had whatever numbers, whatever results. Here's what we said. I want them to be able to say they were faithful. When you look back on their life, whatever God put in front of them, they were faithful. We didn't quit. God was worth serving. I want that. I want to be faithful. But after reading this book, well, I think about it differently, and here's what I want to do. I want to read you how the author of the book, Schumacher, answered that legacy, and it really helped me. But I have to give you a bit of backstory. In the book, and I'm not going to, you need to read the book, I'm not going to go into all of it, but he talks about seasons of weakness in his life, in ways that are very vulnerable.
Jocelyn: Okay.
Janet: And he was a pastor, and he talks about being so overwhelmed, and he says in the book, the idolatry, the people pleasing that were behind his preaching, so every, he was spending so many hours preparing for every sermon because it's got to be amazing. Everyone has to be, whatever. He was going to read, he was going to study every book of the Bible and have all these personal notes so that his kids would have that, and they would have the Bible according to him. You know, and there's parts of that that you go, we see that people passing those down, but.
Jocelyn: But his purpose was.
Janet: Right. got into his head.
Jocelyn: Yeah, Yeah.
Janet: So in the middle of all of that he felt such pressure and he got so overwhelmed that in the middle of the night he took this Bible that he was going to have forever that he had decided he ripped it into small pieces. So there's a story behind it. It's a powerful story, but that's the bottom line. And his wife found him doing this and came up behind him, took all the pieces and put them in a ziplock baggie. That's the story. It's very moving. You need to read it. But this is how he ends the book. He says, I still have that Bible in the same Ziploc bag my wife gathered it into that night. One day I will give it to my children. I planned to give it to them after preaching from it for 50 years. It was to be my legacy. It's still my legacy. Only now it will be handed down as a testimony of my weakness and the relentless, gracious, merciful power of Christ, my strength. I can think of nothing better to leave to them and you than my weakness and the Lord, my strength. That gets me every time I read it and it makes me want to cry. That is what I want. And I can totally imagine if I were a pastor thinking how cool it would be to preach from the same Bible for 50 years to have all my notes in it, all that and pass it down. And that's not wrong, but would that tempt the next generation to try to live up to you? And now it's like, how do I get above that? How do I stand on his shoulders? How do I be more whatever than he was? And is that the point? No, I want them to see the relentless, gracious, merciful power of Christ, and if they want to stand on my shoulders, I want them to earlier and better than I did. Know their weakness and see how amazing Jesus is. My weakness is the backdrop for what I really want my kids to know. It doesn't mean I don't want to be faithful. I do. But I want it to be evident that my faithfulness is just a testimony to God at work. I want them to see that what God does with even my weakness and how amazing that is. That's the legacy I want to give them.
Jocelyn: That's amazing.
Janet: And I think this season in our lives over the last few years has really crystallized that for me and that is a gift of the Lord to help me to see that.
Jocelyn: I'm so thankful that this was recorded because my brain feels a little bit behind right now because I'm trying to gel everything that you said because it's so counter a lot of things that I've believed and that have gotten me into trouble over time, just to be clear. So I'm glad this is recorded so I can go back and listen to it and I'm glad it's going to be useful as a resource because it is a very different way of thinking about what it means to be a believer, what it means to be about a Christian and like, I'm totally down with my thoughts being God's thoughts.
Janet: Yes, totally.
Jocelyn: Righteousness and justice, mercy and
Janet: about that.
Jocelyn: All about that. But I am not excited about weakness. And I'm going to have to wrap my mind around that. I'm excited about the experience of depending on God more, but it's very scary.
Janet: It is.
Jocelyn: It's very scary. It's scary to be weak kneed and trembling and saying, I'm going to take this next step knowing that you're going to not fail me.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: It's hard.
Janet: Because if you do fail me, I got nothing.
Jocelyn: Yeah. But it's counter cultural and not only anti-American, but like anti-standard Christianity.
Janet: It is.
Jocelyn: This is like a little radical and so I'm down for it.
Janet: You're all about that.
Jocelyn: I just got to wrap my mind around it. I'm super glad we talked about this today.
Janet: And I hope it's helpful for others as well.
To keep from missing any future episodes, please sign up for our newsletter on our webpage faithlafayette.org/JJP From there you can also subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, or Spotify. You can also visit us on our Facebook page or Instagram at Joyful Journey Podcast. If you have questions or comments for us, you can email us at joyfuljourneyquestions@outlook.com. Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.
Host Janet and her husband, Brent, also speak at a variety of conferences as a way to raise money for the seminary. If you want to look at what they offer or book them for a conference, go to their website.
