Idols of the Heart
Idolatry might seem like something relegated to ancient cultures worshiping statues of stone, bronze, or gold, but how does it manifest in modern-day culture?
This week, Janet and Jocelyn dive deep into idols of the heart. While they've touched on this topic in previous episodes, it deserves its own dedicated discussion. Heart-idolatry can stem from virtually any desire—even those that appear "good." The ladies explore how idols subtly enter our lives and offer guidance on identifying which ones may have taken root in your heart.
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Resources
ResourcesBooks/Articles
X-Ray Questions - David Powilson
Surprised by Joy - C. S. Lewis
Gospel Treason - Brad Bigney
Counterfeit Gods - Tim Keller
Podcasts
Changing What You Treasure - Joyful Journey
Battling Envy - Joyful Journey
Website
Biblical Counseling Training Conference
Heart of Change Series - Brent Aucoin
Women’s Seminar Heart of Change Session 1 - Brent Aucoin
Women’s Seminar Heart of Change Session 2 - Brent Aucoin
Handout/Diagrams
Diagrams (Tree illustration)
Read Through the Scripture Challenge 2024
Transcript
Jocelyn: I don't just need to feel better. I need the truth. And ultimately that will make me better.
Janet: I just want to make it as totally simple as possible for ladies to see that the Bible is really applicable to their everyday life.
Jocelyn: When they understand theology, the application flows out of it quickly with joy.
Janet: It is a journey, but even the journey itself is joyful when I'm doing it, holding the hand of my savior and trusting him all along the way. This is the joyful journey podcast, a podcast to inspire and equip women to passionately pursue beautiful biblical truth on their journey as women of God. When you choose truth, you're choosing joy.
Janet: Welcome back, this is Janet once again with my co host Jocelyn.
Jocelyn: Hey friends, hey!
Janet: If you've been listening to Joyful Journey for a while, you've heard us mention idols, idolatry, possibly the phrase idols of the heart. So we may be late to the party, but we thought we would at least have an episode where we take a step back and say what do we mean by that?
Jocelyn: I think it's good that we are because I remember when I first started coming to this church, I was like, why do people talk about idols all the time? Like I had never heard about this before I came to our church. So it's good that people will get to join the party.
Janet: Yes. Yes. Because it really has been life changing for me. And honestly, if something's life changing for me, I talk about it all the time. So you're going to hear about it. You might as well hear why I think it's so important and it helped me actually understand why I do what I do.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So I'm going to start with it may sound like a silly illustration, but it's actually real, and so here's a little snippet into Janet's heart.
Jocelyn: Poor Brent.
Janet: No kidding. So over the years, Brent and I have had a lot of different habits for how we eat and what we do for breakfast. And I, well, what I can say is we've never had the habit of Janet making him a full breakfast every morning. That's just never even been on the table. But we've had a variety of other things. In this season a while ago, Brent was, he would have a high protein bowl of cereal with milk. He's all about protein. And I was making a protein shake with milk because I don't like to eat in the morning, but I needed protein. Fine. Common denominator, we both need milk every morning. That's fine. Well, this particular morning, Brent poured his cereal, and then he went, got milk out of the refrigerator, and I saw him look at it. And it was obvious, there is not enough milk for both of us to have milk this morning.
Jocelyn: To do your thing.
Janet: Yes. So, he doesn't say anything. I see the irritation, because you know, he's already poured his cereal. He says nothing, and he starts putting it back in the refrigerator, which was very kind. He was thinking, Janet's going to want her protein drink, so he's going to do something else. So he's starting to put a cereal away and he says, when do you think you'll be going to the store to get more milk? And I was furious.
Jocelyn: It's a fair question.
Janet: But it didn't feel fair to me. How dare he act like it's my fault? Doesn't he know everything that I do around here? Doesn't he know that it's not my fault that he used more milk this week than he typically uses? How could I know that? So now, because I was just totally angry. So, here's what I decided. I'm not using that milk.
Jocelyn: That milk's gonna rot in the pitcher.
Janet: I know, you will not serve me like that. I will, and I'm like, just have your cereal. No, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, so I looked at him. When I get this way, I'm very stubborn. And I looked at him and said, I'm not using it. You might as well. And I was totally angry.
Jocelyn: Janet.
Janet: How ridiculous. But, you could look at that and go, why would she be mad? Here's the thing, the more I learned about my heart, I know exactly why that made me angry. In the moment, I would have told you it made me angry because he was, he had a, he did not have an attitude when he asked me that. But I would have told you he did because I believed he did because that's how I heard it. I felt judged and accused. Now that I know more about my heart, I know why. I will just share this because it just cracks me up in God's kind providence, but also his desire to help me see my own heart. Literally, I think, it was five minutes later, my phone rang, and my neighbor, Laurie, said, we're headed out of town, do you want our milk?
Jocelyn: Oh wow.
Janet: I'm like, couldn't she have said that before we sinned, like all over the place? Now I feel like a complete idiot. Now there's plenty of milk for everybody, and I've just made a scene.
Jocelyn: You could get your protein shake.
Janet: That's where we were. So, I'll explain how that ends later, but for right now, here's the thing. This material, I hope, is going to help you understand your heart, too. Why do we do what we do? So, Jocelyn, could you read, we're going to be looking at James 4, but to do that, let's begin in James 3. And James 3, at the end of it, 13 to 18, is going to talk about wisdom. And read the difference in the different types of wisdom for us.
Jocelyn: All right, James 3 verses 13 through 18. If you are wise and understand God's ways, prove it by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you are bitterly jealous and there is selfish ambition in your heart, don't cover up the truth with boasting and lying. For jealousy and selfishness are not God's kind of wisdom. Such things are earthly, unspiritual. And demonic. For wherever there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there you will find disorder and evil of every kind, but the wisdom from above is first of all, pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and the fruit of good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere. And those who are peacemakers will plant seeds of peace and reap a harvest of righteousness.
Janet: Ah, don't we want that?
Jocelyn: That's beautiful.
Janet: I want a harvest of righteousness. But I think that there was disorder and every evil thing going on in my heart and coming out of my mouth.
Jocelyn: It seems like it.
Janet: At that point.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So the question is, when we look at the fruit of godly wisdom, why isn't that where we live? So he goes on, in James 4:1. I love that then it moves right from this is the way of godly wisdom to what is the source of wars and fights among you? Well, I would say that's the earthly wisdom. That's everything he just described as far as earthly wisdom. Why don't we live out of heavenly wisdom? Why are we living out of that first part? Why was I? Why do we do what we do? And why do we do what we do at every moment of our life? Not just the big things. Not just who did I decide to marry or where did I go to school? Every day when there's no milk in the refrigerator.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: Why? Because I think and we know life consists of all those little moments you get put in Circumstances and then you respond. And in each of those moments. You're either a follower of Jesus You or you're a follower of yourself. The kingdom of God or the kingdom of Janet. We know where I was living that morning. I will either be furthering God's kingdom or I'm going to be furthering mine. So specifically, what does that mean for us? Why do we have conflicts at home? Why do your children not want to obey you as amazing as you are?
Jocelyn: I know. Shocking.
Janet: It is shocking. Why is there tension in our marriages? And we could just say sin.
Jocelyn: Right? Which is an appropriate answer.
Janet: Yeah. So true. But I think if we stay that vague, Nothing changes. So let's get a little more specific. Why do we sin so often? Like if I know that, and I know it's sin, why? What causes us to do that? And why do I sin the particular way I do?
Jocelyn: Yeah, the ways I tend to sin.
Janet: Yeah. Maybe I don't tend to sin by stealing. But I have my own tendencies, like the milk incident shows. So why? Why do I go that way? So, here's what I believe understanding this concept has done. I can now be a more intentional, a more thinking, a serious Christian, actively wrestling with my own sin and choosing daily to follow Christ, which I believe that's what our listeners want.
Jocelyn: Yeah, absolutely.
Janet: And that's what I want. So, if we just zoom out a little bit and talk about the book of James. James in chapter one, he starts talking about trials. And then says this phrase that we hear, but that I don't think any of us really even know what we're supposed to do with it. Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials. Why didn't he say, Consider it all joy, my brethren, when life is going well?
Jocelyn: Good question.
Janet: Because, we should. But for some reason, He wants us to think about our trials in that way. Well, I think our trials show us what's really in us. I mean, I just finished reading through the book of Job again, and I'm working through it with some other people. And to think about, Job did not know some of the issues that were in his heart, until the things happened.
Jocelyn: That's true. Yeah. That's true...
Janet: I don't believe he was trying to ignore them. He didn't know they were there. Well, it's the trials that then show me
Jocelyn: Exposed them. Yeah.
Janet: What's really going on in my life. And I would say if you want a visual, I will see if I can get Karis to put this in the show notes somewhere, because I'm not going to try to describe a visual.
Jocelyn: Karis gets so volunteered.
Janet: I know. So almost voluntold in a way, but we're going to get Karis to put this out there. but there is a visual, but just imagine. If you're a gardener, you are a gardener, Jocelyn,
Jocelyn: Yeah. I am a gardener.
Janet: So you get that. When the sun comes out, in addition to other things, that's what's going to produce the growth in your plants. What comes up is either good fruit that's nourishing, or it's those weeds and the thorns and the poison that you've been trying to get out of your garden. How do you find out what's under there? When the sun comes out, it starts to grow.
Jocelyn: That's a cool illustration.
Janet: And I would say our trials are like the sun. They're that stimulating source and what comes out of it, out of me, is sometimes the first time I know it's there.
Jocelyn: That's true. It's been latent the whole time. You just didn't realize it.
Janet: Yes. So it doesn't cause it. It's not like I was a kind person until so and so was in my life. But I didn't know what was in there. You know, how many people have said, which I think is so true, you don't know how selfish you are until you get married. And you didn't become selfish when you got married.
Jocelyn: No. You always were. You were just able to hide it.
Janet: And then I always tell people, yeah, you think that's bad. Have children.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And then you're going to find out you're selfish in ways you didn't even know existed. But what they were the trial, they were the sun. And what came out, wow, I live for the kingdom of Janet more than I knew.
Jocelyn: It was the fruit of the seed that was already in there.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And I don't always know it.
Jocelyn: That's a great illustration.
Janet: And many times the fruit is the quarrels and the conflict and the distress and the anxiety and the attitude that came out of my mouth toward my husband that morning.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: That was in there. So when the pressure comes, when the trial comes, when the sun comes out, what happens? Maybe fear consumes our thinking and we say, I couldn't help it. I had to fear because of this. No, the seed was already there.
Jocelyn: Fear was already in there. Yeah.
Janet: Maybe lying comes out of your tongue. I'm not a liar. I don't know why I did that. Well, because that seed was in there. It just needed the right circumstance. Ugliness permeates your actions. So, Jocelyn, if you want to start reading us through James 4, let's start seeing what is the answer to that.
Jocelyn: What is causing the quarrels and fights among you? Don't they come from the evil desires at war within you?
Janet: I love that, what version are you reading?
Jocelyn: NLT.
Janet: And I love reading NLT.
Jocelyn: I love NLT.
Janet: There's so many different versions. versions. I'm looking at CSB that says passions, NIV says pleasures. So think about your pleasures, your, and yours said what?
Jocelyn: Evil desires.
Janet: Evil desires. So desire, pleasure, passion, that's the source, is what it says. So what he's really asking there is, what is the source of your behavior? Why is there conflict, which is action? Why are there quarrels? There's your speech. Why are you speaking the way you speak? Why are you doing the things that you do? And then he answers it. Misdirected desires, evil desires, your version says passions, pleasures that wage war. We do what we do in our thinking and our speaking and our acting because of a desire, a misdirected desire because I want something. I have a pleasure. I have a passion. I have a desire. Some versions say a lust. It's all the same thing. Strong desire.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: I want something. And that's why I respond the way I do, which we can contrast with the world says we do what we do because of something external. I do what I do because did you see that other person? It's only natural that I would respond that way, to which I always want to say, yes, selfishness is natural. We're asked to live in the supernatural. So, Matthew 15: 15 is just another place, because this is not the only place. If you start looking through that lens, you'll see it all over scripture. But in Matthew 15: 15, says this, Jesus has just given a parable and Peter says, explain it to us. Jesus says, are you still lacking understanding? Don't you understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is eliminated. So, it's not the things outside you that are hurting you, but the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. And then he's going to list, think back to James 4: 1, we're in the same place. Evil thoughts, although we added our thinking on this one. Murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, and slander. These are the things which defile the man. But to eat with unwashed hands doesn't defile you. So the ceremonial washing did not purify your heart. What comes out of your heart, your thinking, Evil thoughts, your actions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, your speech, false witness, and slander, they come from your heart. At which point, if we're thinking about what I've already said, we could go, Well, does it come from your wants and your pleasures and your desires, or does it come from your heart? Which one is it Jocelyn?
Jocelyn: I think it comes from both , your strong pleasures inside of your heart.
Janet: Yes. That's where those pleasures reside. I have a strong desire or a lust or a pleasure in my heart.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And that's the root of why I do what I do. I have a strong want. I find that incredibly, even just this much, so enlightening. Because I want to say, it's because of something outside me. But if that's true, not only am I not responsible for what just came out of me, I can't change. There's no hope there. Unless I can change all the things outside of me.
Jocelyn: Right. Which is impossible.
Janet: Right. Or, if I realize it's because it connected to something inside me, there's actually hope there. Because God has answers for that.
Jocelyn: Yeah, totally.
Janet: So, we do what we do because we want what we want. Always, always, always. And I think that phrase should come back to us when we say this. I don't know why I just did that. The next thing you need to say is
Jocelyn: Take a second and think about it.
Janet: Because you want something.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: You wanted to do that. And I've had people say this to me. This isn't really like me. I didn't really want to do that. And I'm like, was there a gun to your head? Because then maybe I'll go with that. Because what you wanted was to live.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And you were willing to do it. Well, no.
Jocelyn: So you did want it, you just don't want to acknowledge or let it be true.
Janet: And none of us want to.
Jocelyn: Yeah, none of us want to acknowledge that we're as wicked as we are.
Janet: No. So it's not because I have a genetic tendency to be like my parents. Because even if there are, I'm not here to, you have a soul.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And you have the spirit of God. So I love how John Henderson always says, your body has an influence, but it's never determinative. There's great hope there.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: There's great hope there. So it's not because the other person behaved that way. It's not because you'd have to see how dysfunctional my family is. Oh my word. We all have dysfunctional families.
Jocelyn: All of us are dysfunctional.
Janet: My poor children were raised in a dysfunctional family.
Jocelyn: Same. Yeah.
Janet: It's not because I have low self esteem. We do what we do. Because, in my heart, we want what we want. So, if we want to try to get a little practical, what would you say, what are some of the kinds of things that we want?
Jocelyn: In general, or me?
Janet: Whatever you feel the freedom, we can either talk about Karis.
Jocelyn: I'm feeling great conviction right now, actually.
Janet: So you can either be honest, or you can say, I think Karis wants this.
Jocelyn: Well, I was just thinking about some interactions in my family, when I'm like, oh, I'm gonna I just, I just want to have a clean and organized home. And I think actually sometimes I just want people to just do it my way. Like I want them to respect my need for clean counters, or for their stuff to be picked up. And I've just been feeling really convicted at home lately. Like, wow, you are not as nice as you think you are. You're not as selfless as you have told yourself that you are because what you really want is just to go to bed whenever you want to go to bed, not to listen to people talk through their day. And so,
Janet: who's thinking about me?
Jocelyn: I know. So, okay. So in general, what kind of things would we want? A, as I just illustrated, we want to get what, what we want. We want our way.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: We want to be respected.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: We want to be right. We want to not be challenged. We want to not have our sin exposed. We want to have it for me. I want the easiest way. Like,
Janet: Oh, ease and comfort.
Jocelyn: I don't want to be, I don't want to be challenged.
Janet: And how dare you get in the middle of that?
Jocelyn: I want, I want my husband to be excited every time he sees me, but I want to have the freedom to not be excited every time I see him.
Janet: Same.
Jocelyn: This is what I'm convicted of, like, I'm really such a selfish person. I'm really just very self focused. And I think that's what all the wants come back to is like, we want, however we think about the world to be okay.
Janet: Yes. So I, and, and I think. People listening may be feeling the tension of, but I do want to please God. So I say it this way, when I'm in my flesh, what do I want? Because I do know that as a believer, there are times we really just want to please god, but those are not the times that are hurting us.
Jocelyn: No, and when I'm really tired, I'm not thinking, how can I please God the most at this moment? I'm thinking, how can I go to bed?
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Because I'm tired.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Or how can I get people to stop doing this thing that's irritating me? I'm not in that moment thinking, how can I live for the Lord?
Janet: And for me, one of the big ones is, I want people to appreciate what I do. Now, think back to what upset me. I want the praise of man. And I would like it from everyone in the world.
Jocelyn: Especially Brent.
Janet: Exactly.
Jocelyn: I want him to always believe that I have done a good job providing milk for our family.
Janet: That I have thought of everything in advance.
Jocelyn: Of all the things that you have grocery shopped for.
Janet: And because I would think, why didn't you notice all the things I do? Like I want him to say thank you for getting the meat, thank you for getting the butter, thank you for getting the,
Jocelyn: Thank you for getting the floor clean again.
Janet: Yes! So I want, basically, this is what I told him once when I was really mad about something and I didn't even know why I was mad. I'm sure you've probably been there. Because I have not examined my heart.
Jocelyn: Never. I don't know what you're talking about.
Janet: Yeah, you can't relate. Trust me, I've been there. So I was being snarky is what I call it. Like, I didn't cuss him out or anything. I'm just snarky.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And so he's like He said, and not, he did not say it snarky. He was literally asking, Seriously, Janet, what do you want right now? Like we know enough about, it's usually you want something. I don't even, I don't know what it is you're wanting. And I'm like, I don't even know. So we get in the car, cause I'm thinking.
Jocelyn: What do I want?
Janet: And I said, I know what I want. And he goes, do tell. What do you want? And I said, I just want you to think I'm amazing in every way, all the time. And what you just said, did not communicate that. And he smiled and he goes, I do think you're amazing. And I said, you didn't say in every way all the time. And he goes, ‘cause you're not. I said, I know. And I hate that. And that's what I want.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: But I've had to learn. That's really it. When I'm in my flesh, that's what I want. So anything that cuts against that, like Janet, maybe you not that Brent was not saying I sinned, but he was saying there was something lacking. We're out of milk and we could use it. And it is my responsibility to buy the milk. So something is lacking. You were less than amazing. That's what I heard.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: And I attacked.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Because I believe when I'm in my flesh, I need that. Yeah. I need the people around me to think I'm amazing, which talk about how limiting that is. Growing up it meant I couldn't do a lot of things because I can't be seen as less than Amazing.
Jocelyn: You can't be amazing all the time. Yeah.
Janet: So I just had to avoid all kinds of things. Wow. And so in that moment. What I believe will satisfy my soul is different from what God says will satisfy my soul and it drives my behavior. You know, Matthew 6:21 says the same thing, just a little differently. Where your treasure is, there your heart will be. So you want to know what's going on in your heart? What are you treasuring? In that moment, I treasured, here's what I wanted Brent to say, Hey, I realize it has nothing to do with you because you did an amazing job in every way all the time, and I'm sure I had way more milk than I should have, but even though you shouldn't have to do it, would you mind going above and beyond because you're just that way and go get us some milk.
Jocelyn: Like bow down and worship you. Goodness.
Janet: That's what I wanted.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: And that was wrong. And it controlled what came out of my mouth. So where your treasure is, what I treasure, what I'm longing for, there's my heart. So if you're already going, well I don't know what mine is, which I, I would have said that for a long time. If you're trying to figure out yours, look, what do you treasure? What do you delight in? What do you love? What do you find pleasure in? Now not every one of those equals idolatry, but those are going to be your areas of temptation.
Jocelyn: And not every single one is going to be sin,
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: Because I'm thinking in my mind, what do I treasure? I treasure walking into my kitchen and not having the counters all junked up.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: That's not a sin.
Janet: Not at all.
Jocelyn: But when I elevate it to something that I must have, then it becomes a sinful desire.
Janet: Yes. And so it's, do I treasure it above the privilege of
Jocelyn: loving and serving the people.
Janet: Loving my family? So
Jocelyn: And being patient and kind and gentle.
Janet: And so what you found is the essence of your heart, where your treasure is there, your heart is. And to your point, Not all those desires are wrong.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So look at James 4: 2. Why don't you read the next verse for us?
Jocelyn: You want what you don't have so you scheme and kill to get it You're jealous of what others have but you can't get it So you fight and wage war to take it away from them. Yet You don't have what you want because you don't ask God for it .
Janet: Okay, so another version you lust And you don't have it. What did yours say? You want?
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So, again, what did we say? It's a strong want. You want. And the next part of that, in my version, says you're envious.
Jocelyn: It says you scheme and kill it again, and you're jealous.
Janet: Scheme. So you're jealous. So you're jealous. In yours, you want something. Mine, lust, envious. Same thing. All of those are different words describing, I want something.
Jocelyn: Strongly want something.
Janet: Yes. So when do those desires go wrong? Well, it says, you commit murder. You fight and quarrel. Well, Jocelyn, have you murdered anybody recently?
Jocelyn: Thankfully, no.
Janet: Okay. So that's good. That's good. But have you been angry with a friend or a spouse or your children who maybe left the countertop a mess?
Jocelyn: Yes. How did you know? Yes.
Janet: Well, listen to Matthew 5: 21 to 22. In that passage, Jesus equates murder and anger. Jesus says this. You've heard that it was said, do not murder. And way to go, Jocelyn. You haven't been murdering.
Jocelyn: Thank you.
Janet: And whoever murders will be subject to judgment. Fair enough. But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Wow. How was it that Jesus could equate murder and anger? How do you think he connected those?
Jocelyn: It must be connected in the heart. They must be the same thing coming out of the heart.
Janet: I mean, think about that. I, yes. The outward action of murder starts in the heart. I'm really angry, and I'm angry enough to want to eliminate you. So, he's saying the heart is the same. And so before God, the guilt is the same. Now the outward ramifications legally are different.
Jocelyn: Right. There's gonna be different consequences, yeah.
Janet: But the heart is the same. So I have to then be able to say, okay, when my healthy desire for enjoyment of the things this world has, like a clean countertop or a husband saying, thank you for going to the store. When that becomes misdirected, how will I know, how will I know when I've crossed the line from, there's nothing wrong with wanting a clean countertop. There's nothing wrong with enjoying when people say thank you. How do I know when it's gone too far?
Jocelyn: When you demand it or get angry if you don't get it.
Janet: Yeah. And that's exactly what this verse tells us. You don't have, so you commit murder. So I sin. So basically I sin when I don't get what I want. Or it goes on to say, you can't obtain it. So you fight and quarrel. Ever been there? I can't get what I want, so I sin in my response.
Jocelyn: And just to be, where most of us are, like, most of us aren't murdering our family members because they leave the counters dirty. But even if I don't yell at my family, I'm inside of my brain thinking like, I can't believe I have to pick up again.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: It's like simmering bitter kinds of anger.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Just cause you're not murdering someone doesn't mean you're not doing that.
Janet: Right. And hopefully before the Lord, we handle it way before it would ever get there.
Jocelyn: Yeah. But if not, it leads to the same direction.
Janet: It's the same heart. You'll end up saying, I can't believe I did that. Even if it's not physical murder. I can't believe I actually, like, screamed at my family about a countertop. It's like, well, I can.
Jocelyn: Yeah,
Janet: if I don't deal with it.
Jocelyn: If I don't stop with it. Yeah. Stop it early enough.
Janet: It's gonna get there. So, Where are the areas where I see that I sin, then I can start walking it backwards. If I just said that, instead of saying, that's not like me. Yes, it is. What did you want? What was I wanting enough to sin in order to get it? So I'll cheat and steal or whatever. I manipulate. Women, we're really good at that. What do I have to do to get my husband to take me out to dinner? And I know how to make it happen and I do it. Well, That's a sinful heart willing to sin to get what I want. What do I do when I say to him, could we go out to dinner tonight? And he says, it's really not in the budget. How do I respond?
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Do I give him the cold shoulder?
Jocelyn: Pout. Yeah.
Janet: Do I make sure his evening is horrible until he gives in? Growing up, I did that to my poor dad.
Jocelyn: Give him a super yucky supper.
Janet: Yeah, really. That's all we had. And I couldn't heat it up even. So you're going to get it cold. I remember growing up, I knew how to get my dad.
Jocelyn: Oh, wow.
Janet: And it was the silent treatment.
Jocelyn: Oh. Poor dad.
Janet: And that's horrible. That's horrible.
Jocelyn: You love to talk.
Janet: Well, now I wasn't talking about that. But it is true.
Jocelyn: It is really, that's a lot of self control to stop yourself from talking.
Janet: But you know what, to get what you want, you can do it.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Just walk through the room. Janet. Don't say anything. I will get what I want. So what did I do? Whatever I have to do to get what I want.
Jocelyn: Whatever you needed to do.
Janet: Yes. Yes. So, now Start asking yourself more questions. What is it that I want? Because for most of us, if we've never thought about it, we really don't know.
Jocelyn: Yeah, it's going to be really hard because you don't think that kind of under the surface.
Janet: You're just like, it was a, you know, there's a lot going on today. So I was irritated at the countertops.
Jocelyn: I was tired. It was one day.
Janet: I don't realize. That goes to something else inside me and gets attached. This really wasn't about the milk.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: This was about something else. But if I think it's only about the milk, I will say to him, you know what, honey? I was not very kind in my speech about the milk. Will you forgive me?
Jocelyn: True.
Janet: He forgives me. We move on. And I never got to the thing that why did that bother me?
Jocelyn: And it will keep popping up.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: That's the thing about. In my garden, unless you get that weed seed out of there, it will keep popping up.
Janet: Yes, even if you cut the top off.
Jocelyn: It just keeps coming.
Janet: So I think that's our tendency, is to say, I know that speech was sin.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: And I'm not saying it wasn't.
Jocelyn: Keep it surface level forgiveness.
Janet: And then we go, I don't know why I keep doing it. Well, I do.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Because you never dealt with it.
Janet: Right. So how am I going to start to figure it out? There is an article, that we will link to, by the late David Pallison, called X-ray questions. Get an X-ray of the heart. And I've found them helpful. Just remember. It's a tool. It's not the Bible.
Jocelyn: It's not the scripture.
Janet: If you get frustrated by some of the questions, there's one that I truly don't know how to answer because I believe you have to be an artist to think about sun, moon, and stars in ways differently than I do to be able to answer that question. So I'm like
Jocelyn: It's because you love poetry so much.
Janet: It is poetic. Who is the sun to your moon? I'm like, we're just going to skip that one.
Jocelyn: Oh my word. What does that mean?
Janet: I don't even know what you're talking about right now. So it's a tool, but I have found it a helpful tool. Let me just read some of the questions. and think about how would I answer that and preface it with this. This is what you would say in addition to loving God. I know that the listeners who know Jesus love Jesus, but they also love other things and that's what gets in the way.
Jocelyn: So that's the competition. Yeah.
Janet: So I tell people, add the phrase when I'm in my flesh.
Jocelyn: Okay. That's helpful.
Janet: So that I don't tell myself, but I do love,
Jocelyn: All the time. Yeah.
Janet: I know you do. When you're in your flesh, what do you love the most in life? So, I can't say Jesus because this is when I'm in my flesh.
Jocelyn: Should I answer these out loud?
Janet: Yeah. Should we do a counseling session for Jocelyn right here? Let's do it.
Jocelyn: So convicted.
Janet: So, what do you love the most in life? And you, so you think about that one for a little bit. What do you desire most in life? And you go, that's similar. Yes. We're just trying to look at it from different ways. Where do you find your hope or your security or your refuge most when pressures come? Think about life got hard, you want to what? What's going to do it for you? Cheetos. I'm sorry, that was just my self reflection.
Jocelyn: I was thinking sleep.
Janet: Cheetos are better.
Jocelyn: Like, where do I find my security? Getting enough sleep, not getting sick.
Janet: Yeah. So if you're overwhelmed, like I know some people when they get overwhelmed, they sleep all the time.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: That's just what they do. This is like the place where I don't think
Jocelyn: That's where I go for safety.
Janet: Other people they can't sleep. So what is it for you? What do you fear and worry about? So what we love to do is judge people who do different ones
Jocelyn: True.
Janet: You know like well, I don't care about money. Yeah, it's not a worrier I guess and you're like, yeah Well, how about this area?
Jocelyn: Sour milk.
Janet: Yes. I worry about not looking amazing.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So instead of patting yourself on the back for what you don't worry about You What do you fear and worry about?
Jocelyn: Deal with your thing. Yeah.
Janet: What do you think you need the most? I need Brent to appreciate what I do. Or what? I don't know, but it's gonna be bad. I need this. For what do you spend most of your energies trying to get? So again, if I'm not someone who's motivated by money, I can be really proud of how spiritual I am, that I don't spend all my time trying to be the workaholic, to be the biggest CEO. Well, what do you try to get? Well, I try to be amazing. So I have to hide. I have to not do things where I'm not amazing. What am I trying to get? What are you trying to get? What does your world revolve around? We're getting a little poetic, but I can probably answer that. I can probably get there.
Jocelyn: That is nuanced enough. You can get it.
Janet: Yeah, I can do it.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: What angers, distresses, depresses, or worries you the most? What makes you mad?
Jocelyn: That's a really good question. I think anger demonstrates what you want more than most things.
Janet: Yes. Whose performance matters to you the most? Because I think that's gonna help me understand what's going on in my heart. Who do you need to please? How do you define success if someone says to you, this is always interesting when I meet with people, how do they define a good week?
Jocelyn: Yeah. Or a good day.
Janet: Yeah. Is that everything went well. The counters were clean and we had milk.
Jocelyn: No one challenged me at work.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: Everyone loved all my projects and reports.
Janet: So I had an easy day.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: To me, that equals success or good.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So, how do I define success? What person's acceptance or possession or achievement makes you somebody? It may not be everybody that I need it, but if this person
Jocelyn: This is what I've been thinking about at home, like, I want Brian to be thrilled every time he sets eyes on me.
Janet: And why wouldn't he be?
Jocelyn: Well, he obviously is. But I was thinking the other day, but you're not thrilled every time you put eyes on him. Why? You're such a jerk. Why? Why do you expect him to do something that you don't do for him?
Janet: Early on, one of mine was, I didn't know it till I wrote it down cause I was making myself write down why I was so mad because if I see it, sometimes it helps me and boy did it. It was totally embarrassing. I wrote down when Brent doesn't agree with me, he doesn't love me.
Jocelyn: Oh,
Janet: That's how that's what I thought.
Jocelyn: That's hard.
Janet: Because I'm sharing with him something that felt so important to me.
Jocelyn: So strong. Yeah.
Janet: And he was like, I don't agree.
Jocelyn: It's not right. Yeah.
Janet: And I'm like, you don't even care about me. You don't even care about my thoughts. You don't care about my perspective. So I wrote that down.
Jocelyn: He does love you. That's why he doesn't agree with you all the time.
Janet: Probably because I'm not amazing all the time. So sometimes I'm just wrong.
Jocelyn: Sometimes you're wrong. What if it's dangerous?
Janet: But see, that was not okay. If you know my idol, that's not okay. But when I wrote that down, I was like, to your point, I don't always agree with him. Do I not love him in those moments?
Jocelyn: Yeah. And you do love him.
Janet: Well, no, that's ridiculous. Well, duh. But that's where I was. And when I saw that, and this is one that is from Tim Keller, not from David Powlison, but this one's really helpful and I'm going to talk about it at the end. But think about this. I loved this question that he asked. If you're trying to understand your own heart, what entity or thing, if it were taken away from you, would cause you to be simply devastated?
Jocelyn: That is a great question.
Janet: What would devastate you? So we're going to talk about this at the end, but that's one I think we need to think about.
Jocelyn: That's really helpful.
Janet: So the root of all idolatry is what I think will satisfy my soul. And the absence of it would devastate me. So, what does that heart look like? And I'm not going to do a full blown, which I would if, you know, when I teach this at conferences, we get a full hour. I'm trying to not do that.
Jocelyn: We'll buy the audio.
Janet: If you guys could listen at one and a half speed, that would really help me to be able to say all I want to say.
Jocelyn: Oh my word, Janet.
Janet: But anyway, if you look at the rest of James four, he starts to describe the heart that is living that way. He says in James 4:4, he calls it a state of adultery. You adulteresses what in the world? Why do you think he would call that adultery?
Jocelyn: Well, adultery is messing around on your partner, and finding sexual satisfaction from someone other than who you're covenanted to find it with.
Janet: Yeah. So spiritually, I'm finding my pleasure and satisfaction outside of my covenant relationship with God. That is spiritual adultery. Apparently it's a big deal.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Apparently
Janet: He calls it being a friend of the world. And we go, well, we're supposed to be friends to the world. Right. I think it would help you when you go to 1 John 2:15 to 17 and you read that passage and you're going to be like, I know exactly what he means by being a friend of the world. When he talks about the things of the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life. That's what it means to be a friend of the world. He goes on to say it's hostility toward God. He calls it being an enemy of God. Oh, my word.
Jocelyn: Not good.
Janet: None of this is like, well, I'm just not perfect.
Jocelyn: Yeah, just messed up a little bit.
Janet: Yeah, that's okay. So I had a bad day. That's what it is. James 4: 6, he calls it pride. Well why is it pride? Well what is the greatest commandment? Love God, love others.
Jocelyn: Love God and others.
Janet: Well this idolatry is just the opposite. I, I love C. S. Lewis. He's very insightful and in his book, Surprised by Joy, he talks about how he got saved, his own conversion, and he prefaces that chapter in his book with a quote by George MacDonald, who was really his mentor. So George MacDonald says this, For the one principle of hell is, I am my own. I am my own king and my own subject. I'm the center. from which go out my thoughts. I'm the object and the end of my thoughts. Back upon me as the alpha and omega of life, my thoughts return. My own glory is, and it ought to be, my chief care. My ambition? To gather the regards of men to the one center. Myself. My pleasure is my pleasure. My kingdom is as many as I can bring to acknowledge my greatness over them. Isn't that gross? And I think. That's what I'm doing when I say I need to be amazing.
Jocelyn: Me too.
Janet: That's it.
Jocelyn: Yeah, all of us.
Janet: How do I bring others to acknowledge my greatness over them?
Jocelyn: And how my preferences should win.
Janet: Yes, so that's pride. That is what an idolatrous heart is living for and while it's ugly, and we're not gonna end on the ugliness, we get to end on beauty, but if we don't see it as ugly, we won't fight it.
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: I need to hate it.
Jocelyn: If it doesn't nauseate you, you're not going to be in a good place to fight against it.
Janet: Yes. And one that's not in James, but that we see in another part of scripture in Ezekiel 14:3, he says this, son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart. So even in the old Testament, he didn't just talk about physical idolatry. He says right there, they set up their idols in their hearts and they've put right before their faces, the stumbling block of their iniquity. It's idols. That's why we call it an idol of the heart. It's what I'm worshiping and living for. And when I have those idols, it's as if that's all we can see. And that's what he says. They put it right before their face.
Jocelyn: And it makes them blind to everything else.
Janet: Yeah. That's all we can see. It consumes my view. I'm not seeing God. I'm not seeing others. I see my selfish desire. And then instead of saying, look, I just watched my husband prefer me to himself and give me the milk. I just watched my husband choose godliness. I could praise God for that and encourage my husband. But no, it was all about me. How dare you not bow to my amazingness. I missed everything else that was happening in the room because all I was thinking about was me. So Jocelyn, what was the first commandment? Not the greatest one in the New Testament, but the first commandment.
Jocelyn: Have no other gods before me.
Janet: Think about that. So if I have an idol, that's what I'm worshiping.
Jocelyn: Yeah. There is another God before the one true God.
Janet: Yes. And let me just share this quote because I found this very insightful, especially because of who gave it. His name is David Foster Wallace. This is a man giving a commencement speech. We all love those, right? That's when we take a nap. But he gave one that's not like the normal, go conquer the world. You can do it all. It'll be better just because you were there. Go fly, get your wings or whatever people say.
Jocelyn: You sat through a couple, haven't you?
Janet: More than I care to share. But he is an unbeliever who shared this. So think about that. This is a man who does not know God. And here's what he says to this commencement speech. Imagine hearing this in your commencement speech. I was like, I so wish I'd been there. He says in the middle of it: because here's something else that's weird but true. In the day to day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. By an atheist. There is no such thing as not worshiping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship. And the compelling reason, again, this is an unbeliever, a compelling reason for maybe choosing some sort of God or spiritual type thing to worship, be it JC, who's he talking about?
Jocelyn: Jesus.
Janet: He and he and Jesus are on initial basis, apparently.
Jocelyn: Initial terms.
Janet: Be it JC or Allah, be it Yahweh or the wiccan mother goddess or the four noble truths or some other inviolable set of ethical principles. So he's saying the only reason to pick that is that pretty much anything else you worship will eat you alive. If you worship money and things, if that's where you tap real meaning in life, you'll never have enough. Never feel you have enough. It's the truth. Worship your body and beauty and sexual allure. You'll always feel ugly. Worship power. You'll end up feeling weak and afraid and you'll need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect. Being seen as smart. You'll end up feeling stupid. A fraud, always on the verge of being found out. But the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they're evil or sinful, it's that they're unconscious. They're our default settings.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: Isn't that fascinating?
Jocelyn: That's very fascinating.
Janet: And I think he's absolutely right. Absolutely right. Very insightful, but he didn't know the answer to his worship issue.
Jocelyn: I was just gonna say, I wonder where he came to, like what was his point with that speech? That would have been really interesting to hear where he went.
Janet: I know, but you know, he killed himself.
Jocelyn: Oh, really?
Janet: He hanged himself after long battles with depression.
Jocelyn: That's sad.
Janet: Here's a man who had the insight to understand that he couldn't stop worshiping things that would destroy him. And he had no better answer.
Jocelyn: Wow.
Janet: Isn't that something?
Jocelyn: That's horrible.
Janet: That's idolatry. That's our hearts. If we're not worshiping Jesus, the one who gives us life, anything else you worship will eat you alive. And he was right. And he was right. It's no wonder that Proverbs 20 verse 9 says this, Who can say that I've cleansed my heart? I mean, I can't. It's hopeless. I can't do it. What do we do about it? Because that's pretty depressing. Our desires and our subsequent behavior have all kinds of consequences emotionally, physiologically, relationally, and we can't do anything about it. Because God made us worshiping beings. So we're either going to desire God, which will give us life, or we're going to desire something else. And for those of us who know God, We try to mix it. Sadly.
Jocelyn: Yeah. That's what I was actually just thinking about my own thing. It's like, it's not like I'm longing after something super wicked, and I have been able to convince myself about a couple of things. Like it's not that bad. It's a good thing.
Janet: God loves order.
Jocelyn: Yeah. He loves order. He loves our home to be a taste of heaven. Like get on it people.
Janet: Make it heaven for me. Not for you because you hate cleaning, but for me. Yeah. Yeah.
Jocelyn: Oh goodness.
Janet: Yeah. It's actually interesting, James 4: 5 says, Do you think that the scripture speaks to no purpose? He jealously desires the spirit which he made to dwell in us. NIV says it this way, that was NASB. Do you think scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely? There's a big debate about what spirit. Is it the Holy Spirit? Is it man's spirit? Because in the Greek, there's no capital S. So, we don't know which one it is. I think that it's awkward to make it the Holy Spirit, because then we have to talk about envies intense, whatever. Here's I believe an accurate translation. The human spirit that dwells in you envies intensely.
Jocelyn: That's interesting.
Janet: In other words, you're always going to be lusting after something. That's how God designed you.
Jocelyn: And before sin, it would have been like you were magnet drawn to God. Yeah.
Janet: Yes. Yes. So I'm going to lust after God. That's what I was designed to do. Or that envying, intensely lusting spirit that the Lord gave me is going to go after something else.
Jocelyn: And so we shouldn't be surprised then when we see our hearts going after something.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: We should just be on the lookout for it, not be so shocked when it does happen.
Janet: Yes. And then to say, How do I realize that what I'm going after is inferior to what I was designed to go after? But I gotta see it.
Jocelyn: Right. And won't make you happy.
Janet: Yeah, so I believe this verse is a statement about anthropology, how God made man.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: I don't believe it's a statement about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, though I believe we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Jocelyn: Obviously. Yeah.
Janet: I just don't think that's what this verse is about So I'm gonna lust after God, or I'm gonna lust after something else. You know Blaise Pascal, the end Physicist philosopher, says, here's his paraphrase that a lot of people say about him. There is a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every man which cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God the creator made known through Jesus. So, when we're going after things, it's just a reminder of our design. When we go after the wrong things, It's deception.
Jocelyn: A reminder of our fallenness. Yeah.
Janet: Yes, yes, because I was made to worship God. So if that's what should happen, but then unfortunately I don't delight in God, as much as I do these other things like being amazing and having a clean countertop, I'm deceived. And I think in that moment that the praise of man is more satisfying than the praise of God.
Jocelyn: Or endless Cheetos.
Janet: Well, that now you're getting personal because I'm not convinced that wouldn't be. But I don't know.
Jocelyn: Oh, come on.
Janet: No, I know. Just the other day. Honestly, they were on sale. So I bought Cheetos because I don't have them in my home because, , I can't do it.
Jocelyn: You're an endless. Yeah. We are endless worshipers.
Janet: So I was like, I can handle it.
Jocelyn: Famous last words.
Janet: So I bought them because they were on sale because I'm also frugal. And so I started eating them and then I ate them all.
Jocelyn: See that's what
Janet: in two settings though. Not just one, but still it was a whole big bag. It wasn't a little bit
Jocelyn: You're still amazing, Janet.
Janet: And you know what? After I finished them, I remember thinking. That doesn't even really taste good.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: It's not even like I finished it and went that was totally worth it.
Jocelyn: Oh, the last bite was worth, it was best as the first one.
Janet: It was like I just kept eating him and it wasn't even that great. So hopefully I'll remember that tomorrow and I wake up and I'm like, no, I still want Cheetos. What is that? I'm still deceived.
Jocelyn: Today I think it's helpful though to realize that because what it means is if you get something delicious In any way, taste, eyes, ears, you're gonna want more of it, because your heart was made to worship, and you worship things that you think are beautiful, so be cautious, like,
Janet: Yes. So just know,
Jocelyn: just know, be aware, you're gonna want more of what you want.
Janet: Yes, instead of realizing, as my husband would always say, It is and the kids all knew they had to reply with enough. Because they always want more like whatever we're doing it was like it and he go it is and you hear this enough. So wasn't said with joy but it's true. It's like it's never enough.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So when they're acting that way that was his thing he would just start saying, It is...
Jocelyn: It's like a band conductor. Enough.
Janet: Enough. Yes, but to realize my heart is saying, no, it's not enough because I was designed to be completely filled with God and I'm not home. So it really isn't enough, but it should take my longing back to God. So when my worship is correct, now the trials come and what comes out is righteous, loving. When the trial comes, and there's no, I mean, talk about a trial, milk, it was just totally not a big trial, but in my heart it was. The milk comes out, and I watch Brent. Now I get to say to him, Honey, if you'd like the milk, you totally can, but thank you for being willing to offer it to me, and encouraging his godliness. Now I get to do that. Instead of making it about me. Because I'm worshiping God, so when I look at him, I just watched him worship God. I just watched him live out love God, love others. I got to see that! And I get to encourage that. So, I will be different. So, how do we get there? What's the solution? Well, okay. If the problem is pride, the solution is
Jocelyn: Humility.
Janet: Humility. And look at that. That's where James goes. If you look at him bookending the solution in verses 7 and 10, James 4: 7, submit to God. Get under God. James 4: 10, humble yourself under God. Here's what's amazing. He will exalt you.
Jocelyn: That's crazy.
Janet: What in the world?
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Wow. So James characterizes the solution. Okay, God, you're right. I'm wrong. You say, loving you and loving others is satisfying. Everything in my flesh is saying them all loving me will be far more satisfying, but I'm getting under you. I will humble myself before God and say, nobody died naked for me, but you. So if you tell me this, okay, This is what I'll do. Now it's about God. His agenda. His desires. Get underneath God. And when I do, I will find that every desire I have for pleasure, power, praise of man, all the things I long for, they're ultimately satisfied there. It's not even wrong that I have those desires. It's wrong that I believe where they'll get met.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So, the humbling process includes, he says, resist the devil and he will flee from you. What in the world? Where'd the devil come from?
Jocelyn: Yeah. That's kind of weird, isn't it?
Janet: Where'd that come from? Why do you think that he introduces the devil here?
Jocelyn: Well, It could be because the devil made me do it.
Janet: There you go. It's not my fault. We've got the answer.
Jocelyn: Demonic influence.
Janet: Okay. Why else might that be?
Jocelyn: Satan is inherently prideful and our actions are inherently prideful.
Janet: Yes. So when I am being proud, I am acting like Satan who said I will be like the most high.
Jocelyn: Yes.
Janet: So the opposite of getting under God Satan did not stay humbly under God.
Jocelyn: He didn't keep himself under God. Yeah.
Janet: He said I will be like him. Thank you very much.
Jocelyn: I will raise my throne above the most high.
Janet: Yes, so When I am behaving in a proud stance, I'm satanic.
Jocelyn: That's, ugh.
Janet: I know. And you know, when someone's like, how was your week? And we want to say it was kind of hard, and I struggled. Here's what I think we have to say. Well, you know, Jocelyn, this week, I really lived out of satanic pride. How was your week? And I think if we thought that way, Number one, it would shock the person you just talked to. But it would help me see.
Jocelyn: To take your sin more seriously.
Janet: Yeah, like this is a big deal. So I should resist that, resist, because I don't want to be like Satan.
Jocelyn: No.
Janet: Resist that satanic pride.
Jocelyn: I want to love God.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: And I want to love people.
Janet: So when I, this is a phrase that I use, I've been using it more with people I counsel as well, but these are short statements that once I've studied this, help me. But they're blunt because I need blunt because in the moment
Jocelyn: Right.
Janet: That's what I need. When I am saying, Yeah, but I'm sure you can understand, whatever, I, I, This is the phrase. And Satan smiles.
Jocelyn: Oh.
Janet: He's happy.
Jocelyn: Because you're doing it his way.
Janet: I'm doing it. I am falling for the lie that trying to be like the most high or above the most high is where I will find satisfaction.
Jocelyn: That's nauseating.
Janet: And it needs to be. So when I'm trying to explain to Brent why my behavior is reasonable, and it's wrong, I will hear in my head and Satan smiles. Who do you want to make smile, Janet? The one who is committed to your destruction or the one willing to be physically destroyed to save you. Who do you want to please right now? And that helps me because I hate making Satan smile. So I have to understand my pride. Satan smiles. He's got me right where he wants me. So instead, the scriptures say in that passage, draw near to God. What does it mean to draw near? In the Old Testament, drawing near always meant to hear, to listen to what God had to say. It doesn't just mean trying to have an ooey gooey feeling. It means I draw near to what He has to say. A familiar passage that we know, Hebrews 4: 12, that confirms this about our heart as well, when it talks about the intents of the heart. The desires of the heart. He says this, for the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword. We say that a lot, right? Piercing, as far as the division of soul and spirit of both joints and marrow, able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. So if I'm going to want to deal with my heart and I draw near, how do I draw near today?
Jocelyn: Yeah, you draw near through the word of God. That's what that verse says.
Janet: Yes. Yes. So, I'm going to be seeking out his word as it applies to my situation. And that's going to lead me to the end of that passage where it says, cleanse your hands. Once God's perspective is believed, I see it and I go, Satan is smiling. I see it the way God sees it. I'm naturally going to repent. I'm going to cleanse my hands. God, I am making this all about me. I am wrong. I am worshiping me instead of you. I am acting like Satan and trying to be above you. And it leads to cleanse your hands. So, just some practical journaling questions that will, I'm going to read them quickly and then they'll be in the show notes as well. As you're beginning to say, get practical. I get it. I see it in general. How do I begin to change? When your heart comes up, when you have a strong emotion that maybe you don't think is just like Jesus, answer these questions. What's going on right now? What is my situation? And you can't say this other person's making me blah, blah, blah. No. This person.
Jocelyn: said this.
Janet: Oh, well, here's my situation. I ran outta milk. And my husband asked me when I would get milk again. That's the situation. Okay. How am I responding? I'm angry. How am I reacting? What are my emotions? I am furious. I'm hurt. I wanna cry.
Jocelyn: And you're snarky.
Janet: And I'm snarky. What am I wanting? I just want him to appreciate the things I do. What do I believe will satisfy me? Brent, appreciating me.
Jocelyn: His appreciation.
Janet: What does the word of God say about my situation and my responses? Well, I don't really see sin in the lack of milk. My responses are sinful.
Jocelyn: What does the word of God say about my situation and my responses? Well, I don't really see sin in the lack of milk. My responses are sinful.
Janet: Yes. Okay. So then what should I be desiring? What do I know about where satisfaction truly resides? And this next one you really need to think about, but I think is really helpful. How does the gospel show me Jesus is more delightful in this specific area? So what do I want? Appreciation. How does the gospel show me Jesus is more delightful? Well, number one, he chose to be slandered to save me. He chose to accept mocking to save me. Okay. And these are helpful. What are the probable results of following my fleshly desires?
Jocelyn: Strife.
Janet: We're going to end up in an argument and then things are going to be bad between me and Brent and then, you know, it's going to be ugly. What are the probable results of trusting God and responding in faith? The peace in my heart that I wish I had.
Jocelyn: You will have to give up what you want, but it will turn out better and people won't be mad.
Janet: Yes. So then the question is, what will I do now? After I thought it through, what am I going to do? Or by the time you're writing this, what you may have to write is, what did I do? And now how will I go repent?
Jocelyn: Yeah. How do you, how do you take care of it?
Janet: So that'll help. But remember earlier on when I said, what would devastate you? And I said, we would come back to that.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: Well, here's what we know about our lives. If you've listened to the podcast very long, we believe that we are supposed to be reflecting Jesus everywhere we go. So I think the real question is if I'm supposed to be reflecting Jesus. Was there any time Jesus was devastated? What would devastate Jesus? So was there ever a time, and our first thought sometimes is, That's blasphemous. Jesus was never devastated. I think he was.
Jocelyn: He was, yeah.
Janet: I think he was. When he was at Gethsemane, I believe he was devastated. Why would I say that? Well, the Dr. Luke says, He sweat blood. which is a medical condition called hematidrosis, which means his capillaries were under so much pressure that when he sweat, they burst and he sweat blood. You want to call that? I don't know. I'm going to call it devastation. What devastated him there? Jonathan Edwards said it this way, and I'll tell you why this resonates with me. He believes in that moment in Gethsemane, in that time period, God the Father allowed him to understand more fully the fires and the terror he was about to face. He knew why he came. It's not like up until that moment, he thought he was gonna die a natural death at 95. He knew why he came. But why would he say that, that he would see it more fully? That makes sense to me on a number of levels, and one of them is this. Number one, he was devastated. So something was different. And number two, Jesus was not a martyr. There are martyrs for the cause of Christ. Jesus was not a martyr. He knew exactly, he could have stopped it, and he chose it. completely. Well, you can't completely choose it if you don't know what's coming. And he needed to know what he was choosing. That makes sense to me. It resonates with me that he knew. And in that moment, he was devastated. What did he know more fully? What do you think devastated him?
Jocelyn: I think that he was going to be separated from the father.
Janet: Yes. Yes. He knew he was going to die on a cross. He knew that there would be horrendous pain. I don't want to minimize that.
Jocelyn: All of the physical stuff is horrible.
Janet: He knew it, but then to know more fully. And that resonates with me with what he said on the cross. My father, my father, why have you forsaken me? What if it were taken away from Jesus would utterly devastate him? His father. The only pure heart that ever walked the face of the earth. The one thing that would devastate him is the loss of his father. And even in the devastation, he got up. He did face what was devastating, and he got up. Why? Why?
Jocelyn: Because he loves us.
Janet: That's amazing. And I've had people say, well, it's because he loves the father. Yes.
Jocelyn: Both.
Janet: And the father wanted him to do that because they both love us. To think. He chose to face that which would devastate him, being utterly and completely alone in his hardest hour. And he chose it out of love for the father and out of love for you. That's amazing. He did that so that you would never be alone. So when I look at what would devastate me, if it's anything other than losing the presence of the father. It's less than. But I've said it this way. There's only one thing that could really devastate me and it's the one thing I know will never happen.
Jocelyn: Loss of your father.
Janet: Losing the presence of the father. Why? Because Jesus lost the presence of the Father.
Jocelyn: Which makes the sacrifice of the milk tolerable.
Janet: Yes. It makes, even what if Brent, and he wasn't, what if he was irritated with me wrongly? What if he was like, Janet, why can't you just get milk around here? And he was wrong.
Jocelyn: It still wouldn't be the thing that would really devastate you.
Janet: It wouldn't devastate me. If I think, wow, that's painful. But it's nothing like. I'll never face my pain without the help of the Father and the Spirit and the Son. I'll never face it alone. Because Jesus faced it alone. That's the kind of love that makes me want to fight my stupid idols. Instead of, I kind of wish I could be this way. That, that's the love that motivates me. Not guilt of how can you just be so selfish, Janet.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Right.
Janet: How about that kind of love? To see the inferiority of my idols. So what's going to help me grow? Number one, find out what I go after. I want to be amazing in every way all the time. I believe that will satisfy me. And then, meditate on the one who gave all that up. Because he loves me that much. And watch my grasp on that idol get a little looser while I'm deepening in what the actual safety for my soul, because the thing that actually could devastate me will never happen. That helps me. So, if you want to do more work on this, we're going to have the resources linked in the show notes at our website, faithlafayette. org/heart. There is a three part series on the heart that my husband did, boy, it's probably been 20 years ago now.
Jocelyn: When he was a young buck.
Janet: You'll be his best friend if you say, you look just the same. And just recently he did that in an updated version in two parts for our church for the women of our church. That's now added to that website.
Jocelyn: That's cool. That's good resource.
Janet: And he would tell you that what you will find is that the newer ones are far more gospel focused. The original ones were, I, I still use them.
Jocelyn: The original ones are still good. I use them all the time.
Janet: I use them all the time. But he's grown in recognizing the answer isn't just put off, put on, try to think better.
Jocelyn: Right. Soak in the gospel.
Janet: It's see the beauty of the gospel as it applies specifically to this. So you'll see more of that. Brad Bigney's book, Gospel Treason, excellent book to deal with that. Tim Keller's book, Counterfeit Gods, excellent. And then we've done a couple of episodes, changing what you treasure. How do I change those idols? That one's out there where my husband did that one. And then we did one on envy. How do we deal with that? So just a couple of other resources.
Jocelyn: I'm glad we have this topic recorded. It's going to be good for us to go back and refer to and think through because just like you and I have both said, like we've been following Jesus for quite some time and we can still see new evidence of idols that need to be dealt with.
Janet: Oh. They're there. Yes. Hopefully we just deal with it more quickly than we used to.
Jocelyn: With less devastation.
To keep from missing any future episodes, please sign up for our newsletter on our webpage faithlafayette.org/JJP From there you can also subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, or Spotify. You can also visit us on our Facebook page or Instagram at Joyful Journey Podcast. If you have questions or comments for us, you can email us at joyfuljourneyquestions@outlook.com. Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.
Host Janet and her husband, Brent, also speak at a variety of conferences as a way to raise money for the seminary. If you want to look at what they offer or book them for a conference, go to their website.
