Joy
In our very first Joyful Journey episode, Janet Aucoin, Jocelyn Wallace, and Alexandra Nitzschke discuss how true joy can be found only in following God and what that looks like in practical life. No matter the circumstance, we all can choose joy when we know the truth about who we are in Christ and our ultimate purpose here on earth. (Main Scripture: Psalm 16)
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Transcript:
Janet: I don't just need to feel better. I need the truth. And ultimately that will make me better.
Alexandra: I just want to make it as totally simple and no brainer as possible for ladies to see that
the Bible is really applicable to their everyday life.
Jocelyn: When they understand theology, the application flows out of it quickly with joy.
Janet: It is a journey, but even the journey itself is joyful when I'm doing it, holding the hand of
my savior and trusting him all along the way. This is the joyful journey podcast, a podcast to
inspire and equip women to passionately pursue beautiful biblical truth on their journey as
women of God. When you choose truth, you're choosing joy. Typically, I’ll be joined by either
Jocelyn or Alexandra, but for our first full episode listen as all three of us discuss the topic of
joy.
Janet: Okay, welcome to our first episode of our Joyful Journey podcast. My name is Janet and
I'm here with my cohost, Jocelyn, and Alexandra. And we're going to be talking today more
about joy. There is a reason that we called our podcast Joyful Journey. We really do believe that
that's true. and one of my favorite songs to really think about that concept is Psalm 16. So, I'd
like to read through Psalm 16 and just think about it from the perspective, where does our joy
come from? So, Psalm 16 Psalm of David starts with, "Keep me safe. Oh God. For, I have come
to you for refuge. I said to the Lord, You are my master. Every good thing I have comes from
you" and what I love, my husband studies from the original language. He is an Old Testament
professor and he said in the Hebrew, it actually says there in verse two "soul, you say, Lord, You
are my master." And I don't know about you, but there are a lot of times when I need to talk to
my soul. And I love that. That is what David is saying there "No soul, you will say You are my
master. Every good thing I have comes from you. The godly people in the land are my true
heroes. I take pleasure in them." So, one of the things we see about David is that number one, he
knew who to go to and one of the things that brought him joy that brought him pleasure are the
godly people in the land. And then he contrasts that with "troubles, multiply for those who chase
after other gods", not joy, but sorrow, other versions, you use the word sorrow. And so, what
does David say? "I will not take part in their sacrifices of blood or even speak the names of their
gods." And I think about, in our lives, how often we want joy and yet what I’m doing is speaking
the names of other gods. I am saying I will find joy if everybody thinks that I'm amazing.I will
find joy if I look a certain way. I will find joy, if I can be more successful, which are other gods,
but we know troubles multiply when I chase after those things instead. But according to verse
five, "Lord, You alone are my inheritance. My cup of blessing” talk about joy, "my cup of
blessing. You guard all that is mine." So, think about that. What is his inheritance? The Lord is.
He goes on to say, "the land You've given me as a pleasant land." What a wonderful inheritance
but understand he has just said his inheritance is God, not just the land, but if you understand
where they are, these are people who are nomads. They needed land. That is security. That is life.
If you want to tell a nomad, you want to be secure, you want to have life, they need land and he's
saying, that's you are that for me, God, You alone are my inheritance. "I will bless the Lord who
guides me even at night. My heart instructs me." He's talking to himself at night. "I know the
Lord is always with me. I will not be shaken for He is right beside me." He says, "at His right
hand", which is strength and victory, "No wonder my heart is glad. And I rejoice" because he's
just thought about the fact that he is with God. God is his inheritance. How could he not be glad?
"For you won't leave my soul among the dead or allow your Holy one to rot in the grave. You
will show me the way of life." And we know that he showed us that in the face of Jesus.
"Granting me the joy of your presence." And again, that literally means before your face is the
fullness of joy. "And the pleasures of living with you forever." and when I think about joy, am I
growing to agree with God that it's before His face? And do I understand then I'm not there yet.
I'm not before the face of God, but I have the down payment of the Holy spirit. I know that. And
when I live in accordance with that, I get to taste more and more of that joy. Because God is my
inheritance too. So, working through Psalm 16, it just gives us a beautiful picture of joy.
Jocelyn: This psalm was such a pivotal, piece of scripture for me to understand the point of my
relationship with God was supposed to be a little different than I had thought it was. I love the
psalm.
Alexandra: When I think of joy, when pastors talk about joy, it's helpful for me to define what
God is actually promising, because He's not promising us happy, easy lives, right when He says
you can have a life of joy. So, I studied with our mom-to-mom group last year the fruits of the
spirit and the definition of joy that we learned was it's a predetermined attitude of praise for
God's goodness, by maintaining an eternal focus in the midst of difficulty. And for me, Psalm 16
is such a powerful Psalm to go to when you are going through something hard. And I love, Janet,
how you were talking over and over about, that I need to talk to my soul. You referenced it in
verse two and throughout the rest of the psalm. Verse eight I think is just a perfect explanation of
that: "I have set the Lord always before me. Because He's at my right hand, I shall not be
shaken." But "I have set "that is a choice. "I have set the Lord always before me" that reminds
me of Colossians three verses one and two. It says, "if then you have been raised with Christ,
seek the things that are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God, set your mind."
This is a choice that I have in the midst of suffering or a hard day even. "Set your minds on
things that are above, not on things that are on earth." And I think some things that steal my joy,
we talk to ourselves all day, we counsel ourselves, we could live in condemnation. I'm a bad
mom. I'm a failure. This isn't fair. I'm sick of blah, blah, blah. Doing x
Janet: I deserve whatever
Alexandra: Yeah. And it can just be really easy to allow our emotions to be the boss. And the
problem is that so often we can stay there and not apply truth to that. And I love, John 15 verse
seven, where it says, "if you abide in me and my words abide in, you ask whatever you wish, and
it will be done for you." And I think that just goes along so well with setting the Lord before me
also means soaking my mind, abiding, making my home in scripture.
Janet: And I do love though, that you mentioned, in your definition and eternal focus, because I
think that's part of the problem. We would say this is not a joy filled world because it's not
happily ever after here. And if that's what I'm focused on, I can't even see the goodness of God.
Because if God were good, why did He allow whatever? But when I'm thinking eternally and
thinking what will give me the greatest joy is being in the presence of God and Jesus made that
possible. That's going to happen. That is a guarantee. And I have the down payment of the Holy
spirit. How can I not know that? And not be rejoicing, but I have to be thinking eternally. And if
I'm not thinking eternally, none of this makes any sense.
Jocelyn: I think it's, it's so helpful to remember the big picture. Like why did God create us?
What's the purpose that we're placed here for? What is this life supposed to look like? And one
of the things that I love about Psalm 16 and the end where it says, "in Your presence there is
fullness of joy at Your right hand are pleasures forevermore" is it counteracts this fallacy, maybe
about what the Christian life is supposed to look like like we're just static, philosophical thinkers
who just sit around and read the Bible all day and then go do whatever we want. God didn't make
us to have our Christianity be a component of us. Our relationship with God is supposed to be
the core of who you are, and it informs the way that we live our life. And so, by keeping the big
picture in mind, we can see that God created us to be in His presence and when we are in His
presence, we are filled with joy. I was blown away. I remember a long time ago when I studied
this passage for the first time and realized that Jesus says, or that God is saying that His right
hand are pleasures forevermore. Our Christian walk isn't supposed to be this some completely
feelingless, boring existence. God created us to find joy and to find it in him and counterfeit
measures will never give us the pleasure that He promises us in closeness with Him and an
abiding with Him.
Janet: In the midst of hard things
Jocelyn: Totally
Alexandra: And Jocelyn, I remember one time you taught, I can't, I can't remember what you're
teaching on the topic. There was one thing that you said the satisfaction that God offers within a
relationship with Him is like holding a Dixie cup under a waterfall." That is so powerful. And I
think that's what our souls absolutely crave.
Janet: That's what we were designed for.
Jocelyn: Exactly
Janet: Yes
Jocelyn: One of the sad things is, one of the things that contributes to the most sadness in our
life, if we're going to counteract sadness with joy is when we look at God's commands in
scripture, and we say, you know what I'm pretty sure He's holding out on me. That if I do that
thing that He's taught me to do in the scriptures, I'm going to be prohibited from getting the joy
that I think I need in my life. And so, we decided to do our own thing live without obedience.
And because we're so convinced that we're going to be happiest when we get what we want. And
when you look at scripture, John 15 says that our joy will be full when we are living the way that
he has designed us to live. John 15 is the passage that talks about Jesus teaching His disciples to
stay rooted in Him, basically to stay attached to Him, to find their sustenance from Him, their
thoughts from Him, their nourishment from Him. And then if we try to abide outside of that
relationship, we would be withered and thrown away. And so, John 15 says that Jesus' goal for
His disciples is that they would have full joy. Not just, a good enough life to not want to kill
ourselves, but full joy. And that that full joy is found in really clinging tightly to Him and seeing
Him as our life, as Deuteronomy says, He is our life.
Janet: I love that.
Alexandra: When it comes to like, why do some Christians not experience joy? And I think
there's probably a myriad of reasons, but the main one is sin. Sin robs us of a joy filled life and
Janet brought up Psalm 16 and in verse four, it says, "the sorrows of those who run after another
God shall multiply." and we see that throughout scripture, you know, and these are not just
sorrows from trial. These are sorrows from the consequences of sin chasing after other gods will
multiply our sadness and we have choices that can produce joy. It's by the Holy spirit, but we
definitely have choices that, in James one, it says "for the anger of man does not produce the
righteousness of God." It's not just here. We see that what we choose to think and what we
choose to believe about God does have a direct effect on the level of joy that we will get to
experience. A verse that I, all those times go back to when I'm in the midst of temptation is
Proverbs 13:15. It says "good understanding, produces favor, but the way of the treacherous is
hard" and all the time, I think that my sin will make my life easier by giving into this sin. But
right here, we see that in 16:4, and again, in Proverbs 13:15, that sin makes us, it makes us
stupid. Sin makes us sad.
Janet: Yeah, it's true. And then to think our sin is so deceiving, like you said, Alexandra, it makes
us think God's way would never satisfy what I really need is this other thing. And then I, and
there's so many places, well, our own lives, I have to tell you as a fellow traveler, I don't live in a
constant state of joy. I wish that I could tell you I did.
Jocelyn: Yeah
Janet: But I am as deceived as the next person, which is why I need the word of God all the time
and I'm currently reading through Philippians and was just thinking about the context there in
Philippians two, where Paul has that beautiful poem about the humility of Christ. and then that
Christ will be the One exalted the most. and then as he talks about his own life, tells them not to
complain and argue so that they would, would be shining bright in the world. And then he says,
"I will rejoice. Even if I lose my life, pouring it out, like a liquid offering to God." And I think,
okay. I can remember when my kids were little struggling with, I feel like all I'm doing is
pouring out my life for other people. Like when is this about me?
Jocelyn: Totally, yeah
Janet: And yet whenever it is about me, it's never enough. My worst days were always mother's
day and my birthday. Because those are the days. I really think all the other days I'm thinking
about everybody else as if that were even true. But on those days, somebody just make it about
me, just those two days of the whole year and whatever they did wasn't enough. And to think the
deception of, if it were about me, I would be joyful. And when I do make it about me, I'm the
most miserable. And yet turning your world upside down when I pour out my life for others.
Because of the gospel because I love God, God, in His upside-down kingdom, that's where I had
the most joy. And that's what Paul says. I rejoice that I get to pour out my life like an offering.
Not because he's feeling like a martyr, but because he was designed to love God and love others.
And when he lives that way there's joy, but my heart is very deceived.
Jocelyn: There's this passage that we use in counseling quite often, John 13: 17. It says, "if you
know these things, blessed are you, if you do them" and man, we could quote it. We could make
a sermon about it. Like we could talk about it forever, but it's so interesting to know that that is
the summary verse for a whole passage that talks about pouring your life out for other people.
Jesus was teaching in John 13 about how He was about to go back up to be with God, because
He had completed God's mission and His joy in God was full and God's joy in Him was full. And
so, He demonstrated this life that He wanted his disciples to lead by bending down and washing
disgusting feet. And then they had the Lord supper together. But the passage John 13:17 says.
"If, these things blessed or full of joy, happiness, full of gladness, you will be if you do them."
And the context of that is Jesus saying a servant isn't greater than his master. So now go do to
others what I did to you. Which is just the summary of the Christian walk, we were created for
God to dwell with Him, to enjoy Him, to know Him and out of that knowledge to represent Him
vividly to those around us and this tragic human condition where we all decided to rebel against
our purpose. But Jesus's perfect death, His perfect life, His death, and His resurrection can be
applied to us and can return us to that purpose of enjoying God. And in that relationship, that
wonderful relationship where we get to be in the presence of God, through His word right now
and in person later on, when we're with Him in eternity. But the joy from that relationship can
be. Experienced, even when our life is all about other people's lives, that we live the
choreography of heaven, where our life is lived to serve others. And in that we get this like
accidental joy, like who would have ever thought that we'd get joy from giving others.
Janet: That's what our heavenly Father is like. And we're made in His image. What brings Him
joy is giving to us like, and that is that's amazing, but we are so human, and the world doesn't
operate that way. So that doesn't make sense to us. And I can remember a good friend of mine
years and years ago, who was really serving at the church, but you don't realize where the
deceptions have already come in. And she said to me, "When have I served enough? And then I
can just do what I want."
Jocelyn: Oh, wow
Janet: But think, and I was like wow. Cause so she actually said to me, maybe I, “I want to tithe
my serving, give God the best, give the first.”
Jocelyn: Oh, wow
Janet: And then, but what was that? Communicating satisfaction comes from getting serving
others out of the way.
Jocelyn: So, I can do my own thing
Janet: So, I didn't have to feel guilty about focusing on me and we can talk about, Oh, that's just
wrong, but it's not even, it doesn't work. Like it doesn't work. If I did that, I get more
self-absorbed I get more self-focused. I get more miserable.
Jocelyn: And then you develop out, you develop all sorts of wicked sinful tools to try to fix that
sadness.
Janet: Yes. So, because it doesn't make sense that by giving up do it, how can giving up my life
in the service of other people because I love God and because I love them, not out of being a
duty and a responsibility, but out of love that doesn't make sense to our brain and, and yet taste
and see that the Lord is good. Cause it's, it's true.
Jocelyn: I think it would be helpful if we could just at these three different points of life that
we're in, talk about what this looks like practically. Like we're not just, high up in the clouds,
what does it look to live out this Christian relationship with our relationship with God, through,
through our redemption from Jesus. How does that affect, like how put cereal in the bowl and
fold laundry and educate my kids?
Alexandra: Yes. Oh gosh. So, for me, my red flag, when I'm finding my joy in something else is,
I will say, "I just wish" dot dot dot and my husband is so in tune with this. You know how to
counsel me in those moments. And so, the joke in our house is when I say something like, "Oh, I
just wish I had a maid that could clean my dishes every night."
Janet: That’s just only reasonable. Everybody wishes that.
Jocelyn: That was common.
Alexandra: When I say a phrase, "Oh, I just wish" Stephan cuts in he goes, "and then I'll be
happy."
Janet: Great
Alexandra: So
Jocelyn: That’s Great.
Janet: That is so good.
Alexandra: Then, and then our kids will even join in and "then I'll be happy", Oh, mom is being
so ridiculous, but it is a red flag to me. And I think it's good for us to see okay, where are those
red flags where I am, I am tripping up right here. And so, for me the overflow of the heart, the
mouth speaks when I find myself saying that or thinking that I know, Hey, Alexandra, you need
to do a heart check right now and see what lie are you believing that you think is going to satisfy
you more than being like your savior who for the joy set before him endured the cross. That's our
example of how to walk the path of joy. It's not ease and comfort like my soul craves. Or I
should say my flesh craves. What about you, Jocelyn?
Jocelyn: Well, I think practically for me, deciding to love other people more than myself looks
really simple. Deciding to spend time with my husband when I have 40 things that I need to do,
need quote unquote. When what I really need to do is to love him and to support him and be a
safe place for him after a long day, it doesn't mean I never get my stuff done, but if he's my
priority, then actually make them a priority and it's amazing how sometimes I'm thinking I'd get
done with all this work, then I'll be happy. And really, I find often that when I'm making
sacrificial decisions to serve my husband, it brings this like weird joy that I was never thinking
would happen, but it happens every time. Like what, wait, I'm happy doing what is best, even
though I didn't get my stuff done or practically if it makes our family work better by me sticking
to a strict schedule so that the kids have reliable life to build up around, then it means like I don't
snooze. I don't just decide to get up whenever I want. I sacrifice by going to bed on time so that I
can get up on time so that I can make my kid's morning smooth because my joy is not going to
come when I get to have as much rest as I want to have, which you know, we're moms even, I
don't know that there's ever a time that we all feel completely rested.
Janet: No, cause then menopause. Let me tell you
Jocelyn: So, I just think it's a practical thing, saying like this doughnut is going to make me
happy or this amount of sleep is gonna make me happy or getting my work done is going to
make me happy. Then I'll be happy. My joy is getting to do this journey with God. And so, I
we're farmers. I pick green beans for so many hours out of my life. And it's like my least favorite
thing to pick and everybody at market wants it. So, I pick it a lot. And so, I can go out there and
be like, okay, just got to get through this, got to two more hours of picking and then I'll be done
and then I'll be happy. Or I can say, I'm going to go pick green beans with Jesus and we're just
going to reflect on some things that we've been I've been reading about, but I'm going to do it
with Jesus. I'm going to, I'm going to enjoy this journey with Jesus, not get done with my junk so
that I can have the life that I want. This is a life Jesus chose for me. And along that journey, He's
providing me joy as I really think hard about how to obey Him in this context, in this moment,
with this word, with this thought, with this day, I don't have to think about how I'm going to
work out all of the details of my life, but in this moment, right now, I'm walking with Jesus in
obedience and He's giving me overflowing joy.
Janet: I think that's key because you said you have to think hard about it. And I think for most of
us it doesn't come naturally to think giving up my plan for the day or doing something that's not.
So pleasant is going to lead to joy and we don't want to think hard about it. Now, I want to think
what comes natural, which is once I get done with this, I'll be happy. And then you get done with
it and you're not happy. And it never works, but we think that it will the next time. And so, in my
season, my kids are grown, but in town so we get to spend time together. It's very different. I
have more flexible time but I'm finding that my, I have to battle my joy can still be very tied up
in how everybody in my family is doing. And when I know, and right now each family member
that I have. My daughter-in-law, my daughter, my son, my husband, all each have things that I
could tell you right now that are hard. And what I find is when I'm meditating on that, it sucks
my joy. And then I even ended up irritated with them for having hard things so that I have to
now
Jocelyn: Deal with it
Janet: think. And so, we were talking at lunch, I think it was Sunday afternoon and I told them
I'd been reading Philippians and was just really challenged. One of the difficult things for me as
the wife of a leader, a pastor, is when things are being communicated about my husband that are
not true. And what do I do with that? And then I was reading in Philippians, Paul talking about
those who are preaching Christ. Some preach it because they love Paul, and they love Jesus.
Some are preaching it because they know if they talk about Jesus, they make Paul's life harder.
And he says, "some with selfish ambition, not sincerely intending to make my chains more
painful. It doesn't matter, whether the motives are false or genuine, the message is about Christ.
And I rejoice and I will continue to rejoice." He's having joy in prison for an unjust accusation
while there are people using the name of Jesus to make his life more miserable. But when your
life is only about Jesus, You can rejoice in that. And I was really convicted that in my mind it
was, I just wish that this wasn't so hard for that person. I just wish that that person didn't have
that weight on them. I just wish that people understood really what was going on there with my
husband and those things weren't true. I just wish and if only and thinking there's no freedom
there because it's never enough and there's freedom. Freedom is no matter what else is going on
if I'm living for the Lord, but I have to fight for that. I have to think hard. I have to go; God loves
each of my family members better than I do. And that's what He's chosen for their walk. My job
isn't to make it go away it's to help them do well. That's all my job is.
Jocelyn: And isn't it so ironic like we just wish our kids could have an easier life or a less painful
life or more clear decisions. And that's the very thing context that God is using to draw them
close to Him, just do what I want. Right. I want my kids to love Jesus and Psalm 16 says that in
his presence, there is fullness of joy. And if He uses the route of difficulty and unclear future and
uncertainty
Janet: to crowd them to His presence
Jocelyn: to bring them to Him, it's accomplishing the very thing I want for them. I just would
have preferred to be painless, which is, so pointless because the journey is designed to draw us
close to God. And that closeness is what gives us joy, not the absence of irritation.
Janet: And for that moment, when I believe that I get to taste the freedom and the joy, and then I
have to battle again, but I just want to fight the right battles. I want to fight for true joy because
I'm thinking biblically not fight to change everybody's circumstances.
Alexandra: Jocelyn, you brought up just about trials. My mom had cancer and she battled it for
two and a half years. And it was, it was a very, very gnarly battle. and there was a lot of suffering
obviously involved. And my mom did pass away, but it was at her funeral that I actually
experienced a depth of joy that I didn't even know was possible. It was at her funeral and I was
very, very close with my mom. She was my best friend outside of my husband. But I think when
we're going through trial, we just have a thousand little moments that are being brought to the
surface because trial, I truly believe that trials are a joy because it reveals where we turn to for
strength and where we turn to for comfort, where we're choosing to dwell and safety and I, I love
in Psalm 16, for me, the most powerful verse in that is verse six that says "the lines have fallen
for me in pleasant places." And sometimes those lines include, the boundary lines, include
suffering. And within suffering, I have to continually choose to trust God's goodness. For me, I
struggle to trust God's sovereignty and it's in those moments it's because I'm doubting his
goodness, but that psalm is just, David rehearses over and over, God's goodness. He's praising
the Lord. He says in verse seven, "I bless the Lord" and I just, I just think it is so important to be
rehearsing truths to ourselves. But also, I feel like I'm saying, when I talk, I'm saying a lot about
Oh, do this, do this, do that. But ultimately, joy is a fruit of the spirit. It's not something that I can
do. This is not a McDonald's fast-food drive. I can't just say, okay, I'm going to do this and I'm
going to get joy. along with the number seven or whatever, like. Jocelyn was talking earlier
about, being a farmer. I, I'm not a farmer. I can't relate to that life, but we live in Indiana, so you
see, there's harvest season and it comes, you don't get harvest season in the spring, right. It comes
at a certain time of the year. And in Galatians six, seven, it says. "Don't be misled. You cannot
mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant." And so, I just, I keep
reiterating the importance of choosing where I'm placing my trust, choosing what I'm going to
think on, what I'm doing and dwell on. And ultimately, I need to trust His timing in how He
produces that joy. And I need to trust that He will produce his joy at a time that glorifies Him the
most. And that means that may mean that I don't have joy for a season. And if that's what
glorifies Him most, then I need to say it as well as my soul.
Jocelyn: Exactly
Janet: Right
Jocelyn: That's such a cool summary place like verse eight or verse six says the summary of this
thing is that the lines for me have fallen in pleasant places. The summary is we know our future
and we know that our present is being ordained by a sovereign God. And the summary of it is, it
is good. The lines have fallen in pleasant places and this relationship that I get to experience with
God in the middle of this life was worth it. This life was worth it, it produced in me what God
wanted it to produce. And the results of all the little details are up to Him. But trusting Him for
those details is the possibility of having joy. No matter if the circumstances ever change.
Janet: So, as we wrap it up, let's at least talk about how this relates to the gospel, because all of
the things that I'm hearing that we're talking about mean I have to trust, and we've said this, that
God is good. Even when my experience is not screaming that, and I know that in those moments,
I will literally kneel by my bed and say, I need to spend some time hanging out at the cross
because how do I know God is really good? Well, Romans 8:32. "He didn't even spare His own
son. How will He not give you all things?" If He was willing to have His son murdered for my
joy, I can trust that God, even when my experiences are not screaming that right now. Because
my experiences are going to come and go and what I know is, Alexandra mentioned being in the
presence of God is where joy is, what keeps me from the presence of God, sin, what sin, my
idolatry. The things that I look to that are not God. Well, when those get ripped away, that's that
hurts. But that's the only way to get fullness of joy is to get the things out of my life that keep me
from being fully in His presence and to know how can I trust that that's what God is doing? I
look at the cross. I can't, I really can't come up with any other explanation for the cross, except
that He loves us. And if He loves me and I'm reading a book right now, that's talking about the
fact that He is that we don't spend enough time talking about what God is, what Jesus is currently
doing, which is interceding for us actively saying to the Father "I know, I know, and I died for
that and I love her" and the Father delighting to say, "I know." And that, just to see that I can
trust that God, I can trust that God. So, I think as we, we can say so much more about joy, but I
think for today, Being able to remember that it's in God's presence is fullness of joy. And the
thing that keeps us from His presence is frequently our sin and so some of the trials are what God
is using to get those idols out of the way. So, we can actually experience joy in His presence.
Yeah. Well fun. I enjoyed talking with you guys about that today. I'm more excited and stoked
and I hope some of the people listening are so thanks for coming. Join us next time to hear
biblical answers to some big questions. Like why am I here really? And how does that impact my
day to day? In the meantime, visit our website at joyfuljourneypod.com and follow us on
Facebook and Instagram at Joyful Journey Pod to keep from missing our next episode subscribe
on Apple, Spotify, or Google.
Host Janet and her husband, Brent, also speak at a variety of conferences as a way to raise money
for the seminary. If you want to look at what they offer or book them for a conference, go to their
website.
