Time and Money
Our God is infinite, but he has created us with limits in our daily lives. In this episode, Janet and Jocelyn unpack scriptures that help us to understand how we can glorify God in spite of limitations of time and money.
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Resources
Books
Managing God’s Money - Randy Alcorn
Money, Possessions, and Eternity- Randy Alcorn
Redeeming Money - Paul David Tripp
Money, Debt, and Finances - Jim Newheiser
Shopping for Time - Caroly Mahaney, Nicole Mahaney Whitacre, Kristen Chesemore, Janelle Bradshaw
Procrastination - Walter Henegar
The Best Thing To Do - Steph Williams
Podcasts
The Hesed Love of God - Joyful Journey
Demonstrating Hesed Love - Joyful Journey
Websites
Biblical Counseling Training Conference
Janet: I don't just need to feel better. I need the truth. And ultimately that will make me better.
Alexandra: I just want to make it as totally simple and no brainer as possible for ladies to see that
the Bible is really applicable to their everyday life.
Jocelyn: When they understand theology, the application flows out of it quickly with joy.
Janet: It is a journey, but even the journey itself is joyful when I'm doing it, holding the hand of
my savior and trusting him all along the way. This is the joyful journey podcast, a podcast to
inspire and equip women to passionately pursue beautiful biblical truth on their journey as
women of God. When you choose truth, you're choosing joy.
Janet: Well, welcome back. This is Janet back again with my lovely co-host, Jocelyn.
Jocelyn: Hi, friends.
Janet: And today Jocelyn is going to be talking with us about a subject we all love almost as
much as talking about taxes, which would be, let's talk about our time and our money.
Jocelyn: So, Janet, how's your grocery bill been going these days?
Janet: I mean, I thought this was going to be fun. Let's just say that we've gone from three people
in the house to two, but there's been no change in my budget right now.
Jocelyn: Oh, so how was it the last time you filled your gas tank?
Janet: Is painful an appropriate response?
Jocelyn: You want to hear something funny?
Janet: Oh, please.
Jocelyn: Yesterday I drove my daughter to work and the gas was a certain amount. And when I
picked her up eight hours later, it was 20 cents more at the same gas station.
Janet: And you waited to get it until then?
Jocelyn: No, no, I was good.
Janet: Good, good.
Jocelyn: I was just noticing. So how did you enjoy your sleep last night?
Janet: Actually, not badly. I slept pretty well. Brent knows that if I have a heavy conversations
and we talk through issues right before bed, my mind will race. So, he's pretty good at trying not
to discuss heavy things late at night.
Jocelyn: Laying in bed. So did you get everything done last week that you had planned?
Janet: I don't feel like that's a trick question. Either I didn't plan enough or there's more to do and
it didn't all get done. Like that's a cruel question to ask, but okay, no. All right, no.
Jocelyn: Okay. You know, I wrote that question, not even knowing what your week was like, I
just assumed what it might've been and you know what? We're not here to make any political
statements. Goodness knows. We don't need any more of that. And that's not the purpose of this
podcast. Thankfully.
Janet: Praise God.
Jocelyn: Praise God. We can talk about something non-controversial like Jesus. At the very
moment that we're recording this episode, we're all feeling the financial squeeze, maybe a little
bit more than we have in the past for a bunch of reasons. It's just the reality, but, you know, it
may look like 2022, but it's not a new condition or anything. It's not like suddenly there's limits
on time and money. It just highlights what is true. There are limits to the amount of money that's
available for us to use.
Janet: Yep, and you think about, you know, for me, I'm in a new season of life where I thought,
honestly, that there would be extra time and money. I'm now an empty nester. There's only two
of us, not four, but I still find that especially with time and lately, since we had a car die
unexpectedly also with money, stuff runs out.
Jocelyn: It does run out. Then we get up the next day and face the same exact challenges over
and over and over. And then one day we die. Isn't that positive and encouraging?
Janet: Wow.
Jocelyn: I know. Come here for more hope. But in reality, it's good for us to take a look at how
we relate to a couple of things that are finite and then draw our eyes away from those finite
things that it's good to look at and see how they relate to our infinite God.
Janet: Well, that's already intriguing. Anything that's going to lead me to focus on my infinite
God has gotta be good.
Jocelyn: Yeah. So let's dive in by first talking about the concept of money and we're going to just
start off by stating some obvious things. Money is a finite resource, even for those that God has
blessed with really great wealth. It's a finite resource. Eventually you run out, you have to make
decisions about what not to get because eventually there's not more available money. The first
thing I want to just point out too, regarding money, is that it's a construct that was created by
society to acquire what we need to accomplish goals. So in and of itself, it's not evil. It's just a
tool. It's like a piece of paper or a coin that your government has told you is worth so much
value, and then you use that to buy goods or services with a comparable value or if you're super
cheap, like us, you try to get as much goods and services as you can for at least amount of value.
Janet: I'm very proud of it.
Jocelyn: Oh yeah, totally. I could do an episode on that. So you get that money by doing some
activity that someone decided was worth the value of that service or work. And so you could ask
yourself, so who owns the money? Does your job own the money and they just give it to you
when you give them something they want, or does the government own all the money and they
authorize who can use it? I mean, it's kind of theoretical questions, but they're important for us to
think about. Really you could take a macro economics class and, you know.
Janet: I don't really want to.
Jocelyn: I don't really want to either, but if you wanted to, you could. We're going to look at what
the Bible says about this because it's important to understand one big thing about money and that
is that God owns all of it.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: The accumulated value of all the money in the entire world and all of the resources of
the world that could produce more money, they all belong to God. I really love Psalm 24: 1 & 2,
" The earth is the Lord's and everything in it, the world, and all of its people belong to him for, he
laid the Earth's foundations on the seas and built it on the ocean depths". So ultimately it's not
good or bad. It's just essentially money is an amoral tool. It doesn't have any inherent morality to
it. It's just a tool. What really becomes the issue is how we handle it. And if you look at the topic
of money in the Bible, God really has a ton to say about it. Second, only to the topic of love,
which you know, is the point of God. He made all of this so that He could love us and we could
love Him back. The second thing He talks about is money.
Janet: Which is crazy.
Jocelyn: I know. So it says a lot too, how important it is in God's eyes.
Janet: So basically at this point we realize money is finite. Money is a tool that is given to us by
God and how we use it, I'm going to say, actually reveals what we love and ties into the biggest
section of scripture.
Jocelyn: Exactly. Isn't that? Cool. So we're gonna look at three main passages of scripture that
are characteristic of how God would want us to use this finite amoral tool, money. We're gonna
look at Matthew 6, 1 Timothy 6, and then Luke 16. So I'm just going to jump right into Matthew
6 and this passage tells us how to begin thinking about money, this finite amoral tool. We're not
going to read the whole passage because I really want to have an overview today instead of an
inductive study, but I'm going to highlight a couple of points from it. First of all, Jesus, himself,
in the Sermon on the Mount tells us, that those who He's called into his kingdom will remember
that the eternal kingdom of God is the focus. And because of that, we shouldn't spend our energy,
our earthly tools building up treasure here on earth. Why? Because the kingdom of heaven is an
eternal kingdom with an immovable value system that doesn't decay, but the treasures that you
find on earth fluctuate in value. Like everything we're seeing right now. And eventually they
even fall apart and decay. Or someone else might think they're valuable enough to steal, and then
you'll have to deal with people robbing you of them.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: So, secondly, Jesus tells us that what we treasure and value will direct our heart and
eyes and what you have decided to love will tell you what to think about and what to desire, how
to be motivated, and even what to like stare at obsessively, longingly. And Jesus tells us in that
passage, you cannot be devoted to two different masters.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: If money is what you gaze upon with affection, then you're going to serve it. You're
going to obey it. It's going to be what you think about.
Janet: And nobody wants to think they're obeying their money.
Jocelyn: No.
Janet: But we are.
Jocelyn: We are, and you're obeying your love for it. You're going to acquire as much as
possible. And this is what's kind of tricky through any means possible.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: So we aren't going to be willing to do things that are not necessarily righteous. If Jesus
and His kingdom is what you gaze upon with affection, then you're going to serve Him. You're
going to obey Him because you want to help advance His kingdom. You'll make decisions to be
the slave of the thing you're worshiping. It really comes down to which you value most. Which is
hilarious when you think money tying into what you value.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: It's just, you know, the value of money or it shows you what you value. It's crazy. Jesus
tells us that what we think about possibly even obsess or worry about is going to be tied
inherently to the kingdom that we're worshiping. So if money is our God and we worship it,
we're going to obsess about all the things that money can buy, and we're going to worry about
what will happen if we run out of the tool that we use to buy the stuff. But if Jesus is our God
and we worship Him, we'll trust Him to provide for what we need to accomplish His kingdom
goals. And Jesus tells us that the way we use money should increase our trust in our Father's
provision for us. As we seek the kingdom of God and His goals, we are going to live righteously
because we trust that God is giving us everything we need for our time here on earth.
Janet: Yeah. So ultimately, again, Jesus views money as this tool and it is a good gift. It was
designed to help us accomplish His kingdom goals. It has a good goal, but it can hinder me from
accomplishing His goal, as well. As I was thinking about that, you know, I think a lot of times
we might think, well, that's not me. I don't covet to have more millions of dollars. But
sometimes, I think we can even tie in how much I think I'm valued by how much people give me.
And so even that I'm valuing money because I'm saying money is showing my value.
Jocelyn: Exactly. I remember having a conversation with you like nine years ago when I first
started staying home with the kids full time where I felt like I didn't understand my purpose and
identity anymore because I didn't make paycheck.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: It was so helpful because you were like, Jocelyn, not only the job that pays are the ones
that are important. There's all sorts of jobs that you'll never make a paycheck that are vitally
important to the working out of God's kingdom goals here on earth and right now it happens to
be with your family. It was super important. So we're going to look at how Paul explains in 1
Timothy 6: 5-10 that the love of money actually sometimes causes people to do evil things,
which is sad to think about. In fact, Paul accuses some people of doing shows of godliness for
the simple reason of becoming wealthy, which is funny, because I would never think of that
being a possibility, but we do see that in the prosperity gospel.
Janet: Right. I know. Normally godliness doesn't equal give me money.
Jocelyn: No, no, but I can see how...
Janet: But false godliness can.
Jocelyn: Exactly. So the thing that they weren't realizing is that, like Paul said, godliness with
contentment is in and of itself a great wealth. Isn't that so cool?
Janet: That's the wealth we want.
Jocelyn: Yeah, I want to be rich in contentment. I want to be rich in godliness. And then Paul
goes on to say that sometimes people who long to be rich ended up temptations and are trapped
by their foolish and harmful desires and they end up ruined and destroyed. So the love of money
actually even caused some to wander away from the true faith, which I just can't even imagine.
That's the opposite of Jesus's kingdom goals.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: Faithfulness is the goal.
Janet: Right and money is a valuable tool that can accomplish those goals. When we get to, with
a privilege of doing this, invest in eternally important things, and then money actually becomes
another way that I get to increase my trust in God. I'm not trusting in my money. I'm using my
money for other things and I'm trusting in God. But in the process of all of that, I need to be
humbly aware that I've got to be careful or I'll fall in love with it. And it will tempt me away
from faithfulness and toward evil, which early on I think I would tell you, I'd never do, but I've
got to be aware.
Jocelyn: Yeah, like you said, sometimes we can even use money to define ourselves, which
would be evil, even though it seems kind of innocuous. Like if you allow your value to be
wrapped up in how much money you have, that is an evil thing, because God says we are
valuable because He loves us, not because of, you know, whatever kind of budget we're living
with. Which is not the way the world works.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: Scripture also tells us that what God wants us to do is to take what we've been given and
handle it shrewdly. So we're not supposed to push away money, like some acetic who lives in
austere, simple life and denies himself material satisfaction. Cause that gives them some sort of
elevated religious status. That's also a wrong view of money and an evil way to practice using it.
Instead if God owns all of the money and the resources of the entire universe, He wants us to use
those as a tool that we handle like stewards and a steward uses something that is owned by
someone else to advance the goals of the person who owns it, which is drastically different way
to think about money.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: And that steward is going to end up having accountability. They have to answer to the
owner that gave them the money to use, to make sure that they use that stuff for the purposes that
He had set it apart for.
Janet: And you said in the beginning, God owns it all. So we're going to answer to God for how
we use money. No matter how I got it. It's really from God.
Jocelyn: No matter how much we have.
Janet: Yep.
Jocelyn: It is from God and he expects us to use it shrewdly as if we are going to be accountable
for the way we use it. Luke 16 tells the story of the shrewd manager serving his master and the
listeners are exhorted to be shrewd like that using our worldly resources to benefit other people.
And the implication there is that as you're faithful in small things, your faithfulness as a virtue
and a reflection of Jesus is going to grow, which is so cool. And you may end up being entrusted
with more worldly resources. But that's not the point.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: The point is the way we function around worldly wealth shows whether we're
trustworthy with the true riches of heaven that are promised to the citizens of Jesus's kingdom.
So that story ends with the admonition that you can't serve God, and be a slave to money just like
Matthew 6.
Janet: Right. Yeah because when you're a slave to money, you end up being willing to do all
kinds of things. Cheating, robbing, defrauding people. Ultimately because if you are a slave to
money, they have what you want. And who's going to worry about a little thing, like, is that right
or wrong to keep me from getting what I want? And I was thinking about just implications, we
would go, I'd never break into Jocelyn's house and take all of her money. How do I handle my
taxes? With integrity? How do I handle when someone under charges me and I see it? Am I
willing to say I love money, so I'm going to take this.
Jocelyn: And one of the things that's interesting is you can say, I don't love money because I'm
not rich and I don't spend it frivolously. You can still love money while you're cutting coupons
and going to the discount store and spending inordinate amounts of time in an ungodly way. Just
saving a buck.
Janet: I have struggled with we are frugal. We were even more so when we got married and had
much less, and it would cause me to be tempted because I'm trying to be frugal with God's
money. So it starts out in a right thing and then it becomes, how little can I pay my babysitter?
Jocelyn: Yeah. Yeah.
Janet: So that I can save money. How little can I tip my waitress so I can save money? And
ultimately, I was convicted and the phrase that went through my head was frugal with myself,
generous with with others.
Jocelyn: That's beautiful. Cause that's what I was thinking is like frugality still has to be held in
balance with generosity.
Janet: Yes. So frugal with me, generous with you. And I have to remember that.
Jocelyn: Being cheap is not the goal. Being generous is the goal, but yeah, that's great. You can
even see in Ephesians 4:28, that one of the pieces of evidence that your mind has been changed
about money is that you stop stealing and you start working hard with your hands to do work for
this reason so that you can give generously to those who are in need. So one of the ways that we
can tell, we think God's thoughts about money is when we're generous with it. And we're
generous with how we use it because it's just a tool meant to be used to reflect who God is and
He is generosity itself. He is accomplishing generous, kingdom purposes and He does it
generously.
Janet: Yeah, and I really believe when I'm choosing generosity and sometimes it's a choice cause
in the moment there's the, maybe I need this later, that really frees me from that enslavement.
That is a great way to help break the grip of money on you is to make it part of your joy. We
budget to give. We were just talking with this new car that we didn't anticipate. Okay. What do
we need to change in our budget? And the last thing we want to change is our giving. So what do
we need to change? It's not our giving. And I think that's another way to break that bond.
Jocelyn: I'll budget, I'll plan to spend God's money because He's trusted me with it and He wants
me to spend it for Him and His purposes. So when I'm budgeting, which I personally absolutely
love to do, I love budgeting. I love being the CFO of our family. I can get my mind off of the
focus of this is God's money. He trusts us to spend it and I can do what you talk about. Like I can
say, oh my word, babe, look how much we have in savings. Like we have special things that we
like to do just like everyone else, and if I can make our groceries cost even less than we can tuck
away even more, but that's not why we budget. Ultimately, we're not budgeting just so that we
can be selfish. We're budgeting because this is God's money. He trusts me to spend it the way He
wants to, and sometimes that includes lovely generous things that our family does.
Janet: Yep.
Jocelyn: The whole thing is that we're reminding ourselves that money is an important tool for
establishing God's kingdom. He wants us to be careful with the way that we spend it, including
the way that we use credit or loans, not because of it's in general, a bad practice or something,
but because God warns to not get out of hand with that in the scripture. So we're careful with that
because God says to be careful with it, but at the same time, I'm going to practice being really
generous and lending to those who might need it and not charging them extra fees, not ripping
them off, and like you said, sometimes when the need is appropriate, we give it away.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: We give a lot of our money away to a lot of ministries that we think are really essential
for the kingdom of God.
Janet: And that's an investment.
Jocelyn: It is. We're investing in eternally, important kingdom progress.
Janet: And part of that is going to be prioritizing giving to the church because I know we've
already said it's all God's money anyway, and I know that God has said He plans to work His
plan through the church. So I'm going to help fund the work of the Lord and the body of Christ.
I'm going to be looking for ways to give above and beyond regular giving so that I can, again,
and I learned early on, I remember a woman back in my church in Florida who had said, she
would get frustrated when extra needs would come up at church. They couldn't always help until
they learn to budget that.
Jocelyn: Yeah.
Janet: So we have that, that was helpful. I want to be ready when someone has a need that we've
budgeted to do that. And I'm not going to live right up to my limit. I'm going to save for the
future so that my kids are not saying, mom doesn't have money now. We have to take care of her.
And I want to be ready to be able to give to others.
Jocelyn: All of that, because it's a finite tool that an infinite God wants to use to reflect His
generous character to His people, and to redeem for Himself a bride to bless for all eternity in
His heavenly kingdom. If I believe those basic truths about money, then they affect how I use it
day to day. I don't spend it extravagantly on things that don't matter for the long run, but I'm also
not so stingy with it that needs aren't met. I am focused on being both generous and also
disciplined.
Janet: And it's going to be anyone listening to this who they haven't thought about this area
before that could be very overwhelming. I've got to be generous, but we're going to take steps
toward that. It's knowing our Savior is going to help us each step of the way, but I love that when
I'm able to think in a principled way, I will over time, continue to make better and better
decisions.
Jocelyn: So the second finite resource we're going to talk about today is time. Why talk about
anything easy today time? And to be honest, the more I think about how finite time is, the more I
really worship my infinite God. I feel super limited in my ability to get stuff done. I'm always
running into the next thing on my schedule. So, and it's not like a scheduled buffer time. It's like
literally I'm running into the next thing on my schedule or I am conversely overwhelmed by a
stupid desire to be lazy. And I just be like, whatever, it doesn't matter anyways. It's all messed up.
Janet: They're not paying me.
Jocelyn: I just let my schedule get ruined because I don't feel like moving onto the next thing
because just cause I scheduled it at some point when I had principals and I was orderly, it doesn't
mean I have to do it. But I also feel the squeeze of getting super tired and realizing, hey, you
know what, that's it, that's all I can do today. Then I have to think through, okay, do I stay up
later? Which means I won't be able to get up tomorrow, which means I won't get everything done
tomorrow. So it's just, you know, the more I think about time, the more I'm like, oh God, you're
so infinite. You are so much bigger than time. And Ugh, I'm so limited by it. So I'm going to start
off again by studying the obvious time is a finite resource. Not a single person has more than 24
hours in a day, and all of us need to sleep at least for a portion of those hours. So here's how time
is unlike money. Money is a resource created by people. Time is a resource that was created by
God, back in Genesis. Genesis 1:14-19 tells us that God created the stars and the planets of the
heavens to separate the day from the night. And He did that so that we would have signs and
seasons and days and years. So time is just a measure of duration or how long something lasts,
and what's amazing is God exists outside of that.
Janet: That blows my mind.
Jocelyn: I know! He exists outside of time. He exists outside of space, but we exist within it. At
least during our time on earth. God is spirit. He's not constrained by time or space, but we are
living within both of those at least for now. And secondly, we get money by working and you get
time by being created. Time is not a human construct. It is God's. Your time on earth began the
moment of your conception. Isn't that cool? And then you exist within time and space as your
Creator desires until you either die or you get graduated into heaven when Jesus returns. Like
money, God owns all of it. Psalm 31: 15 is a cool verse that reminds us that our time is in God's
hands. None of the minutes of our life occurs outside of His sovereign. And ultimately time isn't
either good or bad. It's essentially the same. It's an amoral tool. It's just a measure of duration. It's
how you handle that tool that really matters. And like we said about money, God has a ton to say
about time.
Janet: Yeah. And we've been given this gift of limited time. And when we're intentional, because
we realize that, and I see that it's finite, that doesn't need to be depressing. It can just help me
spend more of it in ways that are going to actually matter beyond time. It's amazing to think that
I can spend my limited time in a way that can have an impact on eternity, on something beyond
time.
Jocelyn: Beyond time. That's so cool. So let's start by reminding ourselves what Jesus taught in
the Sermon on the Mount. As we see in Matthew 6-8, in that sermon is telling people how they
would function as citizens of His kingdom and His kingdom that is eternal. It transcends time.
It's really helpful to remember God's eternal kingdom and the scope and breadth when we take
into account our own lives because you know what I'm not? I'm not eternal.
Janet: No way!
Jocelyn: I know! Isn't that crazy? I have a birthday. In 1975, I was created when God allowed for
my conception. And then 45 years ago, on New Year's Eve, the best day to have a birthday
because the entire world celebrates with you. My mom was in the hospital bringing me into this
world and do you know what else is going to happen? In all likelihood, unless Jesus comes back
first to take me home to be with Him in Heaven, which I hope happens. There will be a day that
my body gets tired and sick enough, and it's going to stop functioning and I'm going to die. And
James 4:14 tells me that compared to the eternality of God's kingdom, our life is like a mist, like
a vapor here for a little while, and then poof, vanishes.
Janet: Yep.
Jocelyn: And compared to the longness of eternity, our lifespan, which if you lived 80 or 90 or
100 years, it could feel kind of long like century, that's long. Compared to the longness of
eternity, our lifespan is actually really short.
Janet: Yep.
Jocelyn: And you could have very full 80, 90, or 100 years, but they're really short and really
important. A lot of good for God's kingdom can be done in those comparatively, short years. In
Psalm 90:12, Moses prays teach us to number our days that we may gain a heart of wisdom. And
I love Ecclesiastes 3:11, it tells us God, God himself set eternity in our hearts. We know that
there is more to living than just our lives.
Janet: Yeah, it makes me think about when you're saying we could live 80, 90, 100 years, even if
they're really full. I still remember when my mom was dying and Pastor Viars called me and I
can remember saying to him, it doesn't matter how long you live or how amazing your life may
have been or full. If this is all there is, it's not worth it. And to know that God has put eternity in
our hearts, this is not all there is. So, I don't need to be selfish with my time here. I've got all of
eternity, then I can remember, okay, right now I have this gift, this designed by God to be a good
gift of time that amazingly He says I can accomplish a lot of good for Him and his kingdom with
His help, using this time. And then there are a lot of scriptures that point to the urgency of living
our lives with purpose, and it's good for us to think about the brevity of life. It was good for me
to think about that as I was with my mom and it didn't really matter how long we lived, but
Psalm 39: 4 & 5, Oh, Lord, make me know my end. And what is the measure of my days? Let
me know how fleeting I am. Behold, you've made my days a few hand breaths and my lifetime is
as nothing before you surely all mankind stands as a mirror breath. And that's not depressing
because this life isn't all there is. And to think that He says my breath can matter. This mere
breath can matter. John 9:4 says, we must work the works of Him who sent me while it's day
night's coming when no one can work.
Jocelyn: Right, and because of all that we have to agree with Paul in Ephesians 5:15-17, where
he says, look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise, but as wise making the best use of the
time because the days are evil. So those passages just seem to scream with the urgency, to use
yourself up about the things that are important, use yourself up. But at the end of that passage,
you have to see it ends with this, therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the
Lord is. So according to God's word, it's possible to be foolish in our application of how we use
our time, even when we're trying to do good stuff with it. So, it's really important to remember
we don't want to just live frantic lives. We want to live wisely. So we might think then let's use
every second of this finite resource of time to accomplish infinitely, valuable things for God in
His kingdom, and then you live an ungodly unbalanced uses of the actual time of your days. And
by that, I mean like living in a way that doesn't follow God's example of resting.
Janet: Which again, it's almost like I'm trying to be infinite and not finite myself.
Jocelyn: Right. Exactly. So our work ethic was created in our own image, not in the image of
God. He used six days of creation to accomplish work, and then He stopped His work and
sabbathed for one day of the week. And we have to remember, it's not like God did anything.
When He created the world, He opened His mouth and spoke.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: So it's not like He was tired at the end of six days, but He made that. He established
that.
Janet: It's an example for us.
Jocelyn: Right. He established that pattern for us. So sometimes we think, oh yeah, okay, cool,
whatever. I like God's example, but I'm going to do it my own way.
Janet: I don't need the rest.
Jocelyn: Yeah. I don't need rest. Who needs to sleep?
Janet: I'll rest in Heaven.
Jocelyn: Someone once told me that and I was like, oh, please. We attempt to work every second
of every day without God-honoring rest. And for us, for humans, we have to understand that rest
is an acknowledgement of our finiteness.
Janet: Yeah, and it's a reminder that I don't have to, I can rest because God is infinite. I can rest
because God doesn't stop working. I don't have unlimited reserves of strength. I mean, it really is
fascinating to me that God created us where a third of our lives would be spent sleeping.
Jocelyn: I know it seems so wasteful.
Janet: We don't have to do that.
Jocelyn: I know.
Janet: But that's apparently important because He could have made it to where our bodies
replenished another way.
Jocelyn: But do you think we would have needed to, like, we wouldn't have recognized that we
needed Jesus to keep working while we were sleeping and keep us safe and keep the world
working in order.
Janet: Exactly. So, our finiteness, our weakness, our need for rest is part of God's good plan.
Jocelyn: So just like, I feel like everything else that we talk about, like the opposite ditch is I
don't want to work heartily for the Lord for six days and rest for one. I prefer to rest for several
of those days and space out my work so I don't make I'm weighed down by it or overwhelmed by
it or burdened by it. So in the same token, like you could be over-scheduling your time. You
could also under schedule your time, and not fill it with productive, fruitful tasks. And that's also
not a representation of God's character and His heart for His people. And we can see in lots of
passages, but one example of one is Proverbs 6, God hates laziness, and He warns us that if we're
lazy, we're going to become poor. In not just in the money way, in lots of ways.
Janet: Right. Right. So just like with money. If I have a right theology of time, again, I'm going
to just be intentional. I'm going to plan how I'm going to spend it. That's going to include work
that I know I have reason to believe based on the scripture is going to be good for the kingdom.
It will be a blessing to others. It'll be a blessing to me when I live that way and that's going to
include resting. God talks so much about the importance of planning out how we accomplish
things, and that planning is another way I reflect His character. I don't just do the next frantic
thing. I plan. He planned the entire concept of creation and redemption before He created the
very first thing.
Jocelyn: That blows my mind. I'm not going to over-schedule time or under scheduled time, but
it also means that I have to learn to schedule my time to be able to handle things that are
unschedulable. I learned this from you actually because what I was trying to figure out to be a
stay at home wife and mom, you were like, you can't schedule every minute of your day.
Somebody has to drive the car to the mechanic when it breaks down, and it's probably not going
to be your husband. So you have to have time for like emergencies or trips to take the car into the
shop.
Janet: A sick child.
Jocelyn: Emergency room visits. Or serving someone else in time of need. So part of how you
have to schedule your day is to literally schedule free time.
Janet: Margin.
Jocelyn: Yeah because you have to have time to meet pressing needs when they pop up.
Janet: And I think that doing that is another way of acknowledging I'm not God. If I could
control everything, I could schedule my life to a T and never have to worry about it.
Jocelyn: And nothing would overlap.
Janet: But because not only am I not perfect in my thinking, I'm not powerful. I'm not in control.
I'm not God. I have to humbly say I need margin for the things I don't know.
Jocelyn: Yeah, Titus 3:14 tells us that we're supposed to devote ourselves to good works for this
reason in order to meet the pressing needs of others so that they will not be unfruitful.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: it's just important to realize part of Godly scheduling is scheduling margin time. Just
like you said. There's gotta be time that's not scheduled to meet the needs that will pop up
through the week because there's never going to be a week where needs don't pop up.
Janet: Right, and I've had weeks where needs popped up and I couldn't meet them. And I can't
always, but I know that I don't want to schedule so that I'm unable to ever do that.
Jocelyn: If you are hyper-scheduled, you'll always have to say no.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: So one of the reasons that I wanted to address these two topics together is that they're
both finite resources. They're both just tools, finite, amoral tools that can be used to produce
infinite eternally, valuable results for God and His kingdom. And another reason I wanted to
address them together is that I find that they impact each other. I'm sometimes willing to spend
my time doing a lot of extra work because I want a lot of money and sometimes more money
than I actually need for living a faithful, fruitful life for God. I don't know if this is still the tag
phrase that it used to be, but like the whole Yolo tag phrase. Like you only have one, so work
real hard so you can make a bunch of money, so you can go have amazing adventures, but also
sometimes I'm willing to spend a lot of money to spend my time the way I want. Sometimes it's
more rest than I need to be productive for God's kingdom. So they impact each other and I really
think our theology of each individually will impact how we spend both of them and how we
invest both of them.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: They're also really good and helpful windows into our understanding of what our
experience on earth is supposed to be about.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: God tells us He created us for Him. And our greatest happiness is produced as redeemed
citizens of His eternal kingdom. And so the way I use my time and money here on earth is a
reflection of whether I value that as much as God says. There are a lot of other things that we're
not talking about because we both have schedules and stuff to do today. And no one listens to a
three hour episode.
Janet: They don't have time.
Jocelyn: But there's going to be a lot of other things that impact your overall theology of time
and money like this. Like your work ethic is a matter of theology. How you work, why you work,
the way that you work.
Janet: Future podcasts.
Jocelyn: Right! Yeah. We'll talk about that someday. I love talking about work, but you could
also talk about the theology of relationships because sometimes people don't invest in
relationships or their family because they believe they're less important than the eternally
important kingdom work that God wants them to do through their church. So, you know, there's
just lots of other things we don't have time to talk about all of them today.
Janet: No, and while we could do that, I think if we could apply our theology of time and money,
it's actually going to bring all of those other things to bear as well.
Jocelyn: I think so too. I think something that would be super fun and honestly quite helpful for
both of us as we close our time together today would be to talk about God and how He relates to
both time and money. So let's start with the first concept. The first concept of time, Psalm 92 tells
us before the mountains were born, or You brought forth the earth in the world from everlasting
to everlasting. You are God. That just blows my mind to comprehend that God is eternal and has
always existed. Like Genesis 1:1 starts with God doing stuff and Revelation ends with and then
we go on to eternity with the very same God.
Janet: And in my mind is like, if you told me a million years, I feel like I can least think about
that. I don't know how to think never end.
Jocelyn: Or never started.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: Always was.
Janet: I think some of our struggles with time and understanding our relationships too, it really
does just highlight God is not like us. He is amazing. He is other. He is set apart, and I really
can't fathom that. He doesn't struggle to run out of time. He never uses it unwisely. He doesn't get
tired.
Jocelyn: That's lovely.
Janet: I know.
Jocelyn: He's working even when I'm sleeping.
Janet: Yes. He never has to go to bed. And I know even when my kids were little and I'll think
about this sometimes when I'm thinking about so many things, it's like, you know what? God is
awake so I can sleep.
Jocelyn: That's so cool.
Janet: He never lays awake with insomnia so I can go to bed, and maybe not have so much
insomnia because when I don't sleep, I struggle to function. He's above and outside all of that.
Jocelyn: And within that eternality, He is also omniscient, which means He knows all things.
And if you take that to the nth degree, like I sometimes try to do in my baby size brain, I just go
into overdrive thinking, like not only is He existent through eternity, but His omniscience is
existence through eternity, and that means He already knows what will happen in the future
because He's already seen it happen.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: He exists outside of our concept of time. He knows all things past, present, and future.
And this is the part that I love spending time thinking about. He knows every version of what
could happen with every one of the choices He could possibly make. And that's why He chose
the specific version of reality. He has chosen for us to experience because it produces the one and
only result He sovereignly knew was best for His eternal purposes. That just doesn't it just make
you like, ah, rest into Him.
Janet: Yes.
Jocelyn: Like weren't thrown off. You weren't a surprise. You saw all the other options and this is
the one you chose.
Janet: Yes, this is what's best. And knowing that gives us hope. What's painful is that includes a
lot of really hard things, and we won't always see this side of heaven. We won't always see what
all those purposes were in this lifetime, but here's what we know. What did you say earlier? This
life is so short and we have all eternity in the kingdom of heaven where we will understand.
Jocelyn: As God is our creator, He is the owner of all the resources of the earth, and He's not
limited by need. He doesn't run out of ability to provide. His bank account is never in the red. All
of the resources of the earth and every invisible created resource is at His disposal. He has
infinite ability to meet needs.
Janet: And then add to that, that He has hesed love. If you don't know what I mean by that,
there's two podcasts on that, but He delights to meet our needs. That's His love and He owns it
all, including all time and all money. So yes, we're accountable to Him about how we use those
things.
Jocelyn: So as we think about our finite resources, time and money, that are used in living in
God's kingdom eternally, but also in helping to bring about it here on earth to the degree that
we're able to. It's helpful to reflect on the God who gave us those tools and the mission itself. It
also helps us as we decide how we're going to use both of them. Are we spending the money that
belongs to God accomplishing the mission of God? Are we spending the time that God owns
accomplishing the mission of God?
Janet: And I just want to say as we're closing this because that's exactly right and it's so much
more complicated than that sounds, you know? And so I would just say to anybody listening, we
just need to expect we're in a sin cursed world. Sin will complicate things.
Jocelyn: And the entire world around us thinks about this differently. And you're going to be
hearing the opposite message from everyone who is not a believer. So we're not purposely trying
to oversimplify something and say, oh, you should be able to just figure this out no problem.
These are the basics.
Janet: Right.
Jocelyn: And the application of this will take the wisdom that God promises to those who ask for
it.
Janet: As I was thinking through this, it was like, okay, on the one hand, I know I'm not always
going to want to steward my time and money well. I get that. Here's what I think can be more
confusing. There are going to be times when I want to steward my time or money well, and I still
don't know what to do, and I still don't know what's best. I think in those moments, if I've been
building a habit of at least wanting to steward it well, that will help, and then I think run to my
Savior. I'm thankful that I have a Savior. I seek His guidance. I can take small steps of change. I
don't have to be overwhelmed and I can know He's going to walk it with me. Excellent.
Jocelyn: We have some resources we're going to recommend in our show notes, but I'm going to
just throw some titles out there for you to think about. Randy Alcorn has two really great books
on money. Managing God's Money and Money, Possessions, and Eternity, which are going to
talk very much about what we talked about today. Paul David Tripp has a book called,
Redeeming Money, and then Jim Newheiser has a book called Money, Debt, and Finances. When
you think about the time component, Kevin D. Young has an awesome little skinny book called,
Crazy Busy. Super helpful. And then there's a couple of great booklets. Shopping for Time. And
then two booklets that were really helpful for me as I processed staying home full-time and just,
you know, processing my professional work life. Two booklets, Burned Out by Winston Smith
and then Burn Out by Brad Hamrick. They were really helpful. And then there's also a book
called, Procrastination, that will be helpful if that's what you struggle with.
Janet: Yeah.
Jocelyn: There's a kid's book called, The Best Thing to Do.
Janet: Oh, I like that kid's book.
Jocelyn: It talks about this topic too. So if you have kiddos or grandkids, that would be a great
book for you to invest in.
Janet: Excellent. So I think this has been hopeful, helpful, given us things to think about.
Jocelyn: And short.
Janet: And short. We'll see how short this is.
Jocelyn: Shorter than normal.
Janet: That's true, shorter than normal. So thank you, Jocelyn, for leading us in that, and for those
of you listening, I hope that this will be an encouragement to you. Check out the links and come
back for our next episode while we enjoy the journey together.
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joyfuljourneyquestions@outlook.com. Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible
Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to
receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.
Host Janet and her husband, Brent, also speak at a variety of conferences as a way to raise money
for the seminary. If you want to look at what they offer or book them for a conference, go to their
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